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+---- Thread: Fighters should be fun... (/showthread.php?tid=5119)
Fighters should be fun... - El Nino - 01-02-2008
I'm holding my head now, today i was flying my cruiser, when i meet two repex guys, one of them in a cruiser imediatly figured that he should switch to a fighter, and even with my own two fighter coverers, we lost...:)
"you know the balance is off, when a guy in a cruiser switches in to his fighter to fight a cruiser..."
I hope the mod developers are reading this:)
Fighters should be fun... - mjolnir - 01-03-2008
' Wrote:I'm holding my head now, today i was flying my cruiser, when i meet two repex guys, one of them in a cruiser imediatly figured that he should switch to a fighter, and even with my own two fighter coverers, we lost...:)
"you know the balance is off, when a guy in a cruiser switches in to his fighter to fight a cruiser..."
I hope the mod developers are reading this:)
what was the other guy in? quite important aspect
----------------
Nothing is wrong with the balance if it was one of the following scenarions:
1 Cruiser + 2 Fighters VS 1 Cruiser + Fighter more firepower on one side... the RepEx cruiser would go down first and the fighter cannot do much alone
1 Cruiser + 2 Fighter VS 1 Cruiser + Bomber your cruiser would get down first... but the RepEX cruiser + bomber would be useless against the 2 Fighters.... they would kill the bomber and then run away
EDIT: Cruiser is described as anti-GB ship... not anti-fighter
1 Fighter + 1 Bomber, 1 Fighter + 1 GB or 2 GBs are the best combinations to fight your force.
Fighters should be fun... - StarButt - 01-03-2008
Thats the main problem: fighters not being able to efficiently protect capitals, from other fighters (bombers).
Also I'v seen many capship captains making a mistake of sticking arround to shoot from turret view. I'd sugest thrusting off in a streight line, acting like a bait, shooting from rear view.
That should enable ur own fighter cover to get on hostiles tail and increase their chances to hit. Capship captains should learn some modesty, and to work as part of the team. Such types usually have "one man army" syndrom.
Fighters should be fun... - Jinx - 01-03-2008
depends starbutt - flying a straight line to line up the enemy makes it indeed easier to hit them ( but for the capship - not much, cause even if your curser is on the autoaim cross, you ll miss ) - - at least your fightercover can hit easier then.
but - when you re fighting bombers - you ll take more hits from them when you are thrusting in a straigh line - the bomber can much easier dodge your shots while it takes less to aim at your cap. - against a bomber ( that means 1 bomber vs. 1 cap.... it is really better for the cap to be immobile and turret viewed, cause the bomber must perform more complicated manouvers in order to hit / dodge you then - it also depends on the capship you re flying - a cruiser might really use cruise at 130 - but a battleship without cruise and only thruster 90 ... not really sure about that one.
anyway - fighters are too strong, when you direclty compare them to the capships - but bringing them into a "roleplay" line would render them useless. the balance is more or less OK now - even if its frustrating for a capship to hit a fighter - but hey, some encourage capship nerfing so they are not "whored". so all in all, capital ships ( the bigger they are the more useless they become ) are not the "checkmate" move. not even in a teamfight, imo.
no real way to fix it though - it would take a whole rebalancing of all weaponsystems ( that means, ships + weapons + shields ) to work out a real new balance.
anyway - it was about fighter vs. fighter balance - and not fighter vs. capship
Fighters should be fun... - StarButt - 01-03-2008
I stand by what I said: solve fighter weapons vs. Fighter shields/armor/healing/agility issue, and u'd solve capships problem. Fighters and only fighters should be able to stop other fighters an protect capships. That way, those would be free to "duke it out" with other capships. This is MUCH MORE tham just the balance issue of fighter duels, just as Disco is much more than vanila FL, where such duels were the only PvP to be seen.
Fighters should be fun... - Exile - 01-03-2008
The figthers are fine as they are in my opinion.
The only thing a figther can destroy these days is annother figther, or a bomber.
If you dont belive me, try taking on a GB or a cruiser, or maybe even a Battleship with your figther, and see how it go's.
Figthers are right now doing what their supposed to do, fight other fighters and serve as escorts for bigger ships.
Fighters should be fun... - Epholl - 01-03-2008
An Alpha raid of aa IMG gunstar + a viper MK2 versus a Sabre + Falcata was extremely equal and If I didnt do everything I could(the gunstar), I would be dead... We have some balance now at least, we want to "solve the problem", but we still can "balance" it even worse...
Fighters should be fun... - Jinx - 01-03-2008
well, yes - there is certainly a way ( or many ways ) that could balance the ships much much better, no doubt about that. - but i am not sure how much work that would involve or totally redefine the mod as such. a minor change will only do so much though. ( like increasing the projectile speed on energy weapons is the only thing that might not have a greater impact on the balance, cause in a fighter vs. figher fight, it might do the trick - when a fighter fights vs. a gunboat or bigger, i don t think the fighter hits much more, cause the hit ratio is quite high anyway vs. big targets.
increasing the raw hull / shield damage of weapons can have a negative effect on the capital ships. fighters aren t exactly weak when they are deployed in larger numbers ( 6+ ). yet they are allmost unstoppable by a capital ship ( the mighty checkmate move ) ... i really don t know what effect it would do - but i can imagine capital ships being simply outclassed.
one might think that its OK to take down a battleship with 6 fighters - ( sure, why not ) but even in a teamfight ( which is considerable harder for the capital ship, cause the captain gotto make sure that his fire doesn t hit teammates ) those big targets would go down even quicker than they do now.
so out of all the suggestions - only the increased projectile speed sounds like a good thing that might not mess up the precious balance towards other classes too much. ok, less bats/bots helps, too - but maybe the NPC encounters have to be rebalanced then - 1 bomber vs. 5 battleships ( npc task ) with half the bots/bats might be interesting... .
but here is another aproach towards the original problem. maybe it is possible to attach the shield regeneration to the energybar - and that means, a lot more than now. so maybe - in order to regen the shields from ZERO to 25% ( i think its 25 or 20% ) it would take 70% energy. ( you d have to have the energy available + its gone once the shields replenish ) - so fighters would stay without shields longer than now ( while they dodge some and regain some shield back ) - they can still dodge, but their ability to fight back is crippled - and the chance that they are shieldless is greater.
Fighters should be fun... - El Nino - 01-03-2008
' Wrote:what was the other guy in? quite important aspect
The other guy way in a fighter... so there's the problem;)
Boosting the shields might be a good idea, making them use more power to regenerate, that way you can survive an attack by small fighters but by hendicaping your fire around ability...
I have to say i agree with Jinx... increase weapon speeds for fighters...
if fighters could take down bombers and other fighters in a resonable time then we wouldnt have this capital ship problem in the first place... lone capital ships should be stoped by a team of fighters and bobmers, but capital ships with fighter escorts should be unbeatable, by anthing less than an oposing battlegroup... this would benefit roleplaying as it would probably stop capital whoring, as capitals would need escorts as they need it now and it would solve many problems that we have with useless escorts...
Perhaps the main goal should be to make battles against the odds really against the odds. If two fighters are met by two fighters and a capital, let the three win... unless by some chance the two first take out the fighters and then the capital...
:PAnd here we are again to the part when someone will say, fighter battles take to long... a battle shoud take closer to 1 minute, not 1 hour...
There seems to be a consensus that solution would be higher fighter weapons speed...
Fighters should be fun... - Horon - 01-03-2008
Shields use energy to regenerate but I have never noticed a difference in energy regeneration...