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+--- Thread: Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing (/showthread.php?tid=70170)
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Switchback - 12-18-2011
' Wrote:characteristics about foreign gear:
- only a limited number of people know how to maintain it - and even if they are as good as the original ppl, they will have to make compromises.
- compromises include the use of "non standard spare parts" - which .... a tinkerer can circumvent easily.
- but after a while ( years ) - such a custom ship becomes more and more complicated - until its really only a handful of mechanics that can maintain it anymore - and your spare parts also become more and more odd.
- lets assume you have a perfect team of mechanics - they might even make your ship MORE powerful. - at least at the start. - but after a while ( and ships appear to be handed down generations sometimes ) - they become worse - they are not up to date anymore. - they can "still compete" - but thats "just sufficient enough"
- such gear has "idealistic value" - they are icons of your origins. - a modern mercenary group that can trace its origin back to the vikings might still keep "the old axe of the chief" as an icon - but would be ill advised to take it into battle.
Ahem.
' Wrote:After much discussion with the Vagrant Raiders and the Lane Hackers the following changes are happening:
1) The VR will switch to using the Freelancer IFF with Pirate or Smuggler IDs. These IDs are preferred but they may use any generic ID that suits them.
2) The VR are no longer a Lane Hacker NPC faction and lose the ability to use faction rights 2 and 5 with respect to this NPC faction. They retain all other faction rights.
3) Their current SRP'd capitals move to SpecOps ID. They can and will attack other ships that are hostile to them within the guidelines of the rules.
4) VR has unlimited continued usage and manufacture of the following ships: Falchion, Bayonet, Broadsword and Hellflurry gun. They will keep other existing LH ships. This will be posted as a SRP notice.
I bolded the parts that are still relevant to VRs new state of affairs. We Have the ability to manufacture Lane Hacker Tech. So uh....Why are we getting nerfed? I find that pretty bloody idiotic that we can manufacture said equipment (according to admin decree) and yet.....Lolnerf?
The hell.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - ProwlerPC - 12-18-2011
Cool. Hold onto that and when a thread appears from the admins and devs that this is a reality (this isn't an official thread I should remind readers) and not one of the other several options Jinx alluded to then bring it up. I'm willing to bet that what you just posted are is one of the things they will be wanting to see in order to iron this stuff out while we are all doing the public beta test.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Jinx - 12-18-2011
@Andrew
3) Their current SRP'd capitals move to SpecOps ID. They can and will attack other ships that are hostile to them within the guidelines of the rules.
you may find that part important then...
4) VR has unlimited continued usage and manufacture of the following ships: Falchion, Bayonet, Broadsword and Hellflurry gun. They will keep other existing LH ships. This will be posted as a SRP notice.
this part however - maybe you ought to ask for a VR ID - which allows hacker gear to be green. - at some point, cannon agreed to that. - but it is not a holy edict that was given. - when the rules change, the board we play on changes - it may just happen that some things simply become invalid. - of course you can use them, buy them, pvp with them. - no one will ever sanction you for it. - and who knows - maybe the nerf is of such a nature that these ships are just "slightly" worse than normal ( like: you wouldn t notice it if you didn t know it )
i can predict though that reason will be listened to - complaints may be ignored from some point onwards.
all in all - as a player, i WISH that faction were less "me me me" - and more giving. ( or if they are not giving - at least trying )
many ppl are revolving very much around themselves - not interested much in what happens to others - unless they foresee that it may affect them, too ( but then - there are also many players that don t look ahead much )
while - all in all - it appears to be MUCH more positivly reacted to than - lets say "cruise drain" ... things are of course monitored.
anyway - do you guys really really think that we have NOT considered all those factions that "rely" on mixed tech? - you really think we are so blind that we missed them - considered alternatives for them, wondered how to make it work?
and if you think that - do you think we re that spiteful or ignorant that we want to ruin those factions - or that we are just too blind to see the problems? - these things have of course been discussed, alternatives have been considered, various concepts - always with those bloody mixed tech / generic factions in mind. ( pure tech factions are easy - and funny enough ..... they mostly appear happy, despite having more restrictions )
edit:
in the past - the Liberty Rogues lost their Gunboat ( for a whole - but short cycle i think ) - it went to the BHG. - many a rogue players had to sell their GBs ... their rogue GB roleplay ruined!
in the past - many zoners had RP established to supply specific bases - pick up goods at one base - transport them to another. - at some point, some of those routes were nerft - they were simply not allowed to use them anymore. - most of them adapted, some of them left RPing zoners.
in the past - i do remember that i had 16 nomad BB turrets on my zoner juggernaut - and had RP revolving around alien weapons research. - then it got nerft and only keepers were allowed to use them anymore. - i had to disband my RP and buy other turrets instead.
change - by rules, or by the game mechanics - change our RP. - and we can be damn thankful for that. - it means we have to change our ways - which is a lot more exciting than sitting it out.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Aphil - 12-18-2011
' Wrote:and if you think that - do you think we re that spiteful or ignorant that we want to ruin those factions - or that we are just too blind to see the problems? - these things have of course been discussed, alternatives have been considered, various concepts - always with those bloody mixed tech / generic factions in mind. ( pure tech factions are easy - and funny enough ..... they mostly appear happy, despite having more restrictions )Maybe you shouldn't be so vague and explain exactly what your "alternatives" are in regards to the SCRA and Hellfire.
My only real question is this: Will the two SCRA Osiris's, both of which are SRP'ed but use a Coalition ID, with years of work put behind them, both using Order Turrets, be affected by this nerf?
And if they are being affected because they use a Coalition ID, will a Spec Ops ID be offered as a replacement?
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Denelo - 12-18-2011
' Wrote:... when the rules change, the board we play on changes...
... change - by rules, or by the game mechanics - change our RP. - and we can be damn thankful for that. - it means we have to change our ways - which is a lot more exciting than sitting it out.
Here is your flawed premise. I am here to write a story. I am making a work of art. To do so, I must know what is and isn't possible. When the rules of play change halfway through the game, especially to such a ridiculous and restrictive degree that it must fundamentally change my roleplay, my work of art, how exactly am I supposed to expect to be able to produce my story in the future? Producers are the people who think far, far in advance, who plan and create as they see fit. While I am perfectly open to dynamicism within the game - and, indeed, welcome it - artificially introduced changes from the outside force entirely out-of-roleplay changes to storyline. The storyline is changed by things entirely unrelated to it which awkwardly twists and bends it. It's like telling a runner he's going to run a race. Sure, it's fine as long as he gets to compete against others in the race, but when you start pelting a few of the runners with tomatoes halfway through because they doing "too well", or simply because they happened to get in the way of a part of the race track that you don't like, or perhaps are not running in the "accepted" style - perhaps they are running like Eric Liddel instead - that's unacceptable. Dynamic stories make me happy. People forcing me to awkwardly, drastically alter my story with no in-story justifications don't.
Somewhat related, but on the point of people wanting good things for themselves; I mean, that's natural, isn't it? People only know how things adversely affect them, most of the time. I know how this adversely affects the Hellfire Legion and independent mercs, because I'm a long-time Legionnaire, and my main roleplay story is of an independent merc (see footnote at the bottom of the post). I've been told about how it affects other people, and that's terrible, but I'm not enough of an expert on such matters to fight their fight for them. Really, though, I am fighting against the principle of the idea, and of the whole tech system: I'm against the idea that out-of-roleplay force can be used to change peoples' stories, which, to make it even more egregious, most of which the people applying the force don't know a thing about. Any stories, not just current ones - future ones, past ones, present ones, all of them. It's wrong no matter what time it's in, or who it's applied against.
My revolutionary idea is hardly complicated or, well, revolutionary. It's the concept that people have freedom to make art as they wish, as long as it doesn't interfere with others' art in an irreconcilably vile way. If someone wants to say he's an undercover Navy guy hiding in the Corsairs, and runs around with a MH Titan, why on earth should I stop him? Do I think it's a poorly thought out story? Yes, but at the same time, it doesn't hurt me for it to exist. I can ignore it, my characters can treat it like some kind of madness, or any number of other reactions. That idea's where the whole concept of the Harris Syndrome came from - the idea of an actual in-character infectious disease causing out-of-roleplay behavior. A ton of people actually spawned roleplay stories off of studying it. The question I dare to ask is this: Why is that a bad thing?
Footnote:
Incidentally, my merc is only a merc because of the tech chart and ID engagement regulations. She was very peaceful and hated to kill anyone. Unfortunately, the few people she would kill, she couldn't without a bounty. Since she had to start claiming bounties in order to represent her character faithfully by allowing her to kill the people she hated. Of course, people started to treat her as a dirty merc for claiming bounties, which influenced her ideas of them and made her kill them more. Now she actually actively hunts bounties and has started to gather mixed factional tech (you know, the stuff you say ruins balance so much?) instead of awful civilian stuff. Why? Because of your very beloved ID engagement restrictions, designed to "reduce PvP" and stop "random engagements", which, any fool could tell you, also stops characters (esp. non-affiliated characters, and she is very dedicated to remaining "free" from affiliation) from being played faithfully by attacking people they actually hate and thus harms roleplay. On top of that, the fact that she has a merc ID means that she can't do the chit-chat with her enemies you value so much, as most Kusarians (who are, of course, her primary enemies) won't talk with a "dirty merc". In short, you can't manipulate people the way you think you can; people are far more complicated than you could possibly imagine, and attempting to manipulate them will have unintended side-effects, aside from the obvious anger at being manipulated.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Petitioner - 12-18-2011
' Wrote:Why use a nerfed Odin with Destroyers / Lugers as LWB / Bundy, when instead you can be a Hessian using an un-nerfed Odin with Natters? This is still a PvP server, and I think the huge amount of Outcast, Corsair and Hessian Indies speak VOLUMES when it comes to this matter, as they go where the fun and cool things are.The current system, though flawed, is nice. For the RV^, our indies are almost non-existent, which makes it easy to streamline our roleplay. The indies that do exist are not idiots.
Those ain't with the LWB or Bundies in this case.
With the new system, only idiots will WANT to be Bundschuh indies, and nobody would want to join the faction.
Get the picture somewhat?
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Petitioner - 12-18-2011
' Wrote:What's wrong with being treated like everyone else?Actually, the Bundschuh are the best schuh.
Some of the NPC factions you mention in the post above are far less popular due to their extremely limited ZoI and limited variety of RP (e.g. Bundschuh). Not solely because of the pewsticks and such. Imho.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - varoshanin - 12-18-2011
Omg this crying continue?
Get over for god sake !!!
Or maybe if you whining more you probably get what you want , like usual.
So nothing change on FL.;)
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - dodike - 12-18-2011
' Wrote:Or maybe if you whining more you probably get what you want , like usual.Zonerzonerzoner
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - ... kur nubėgo? - 12-18-2011
Just becouse players uses a mix of diffrent ship and guns doesn't mean its OP. Actually I never saw anything which is significantly OP in that way.
This change is fail. And another fail of incompetent balance team. Looks more like limiting freedom of choice by downgrading preformance of other choices despite the fact that those chioces might be even weaker preformance wise.
' Wrote:Sadly from what I see I have the feeling that half of the factions and all players into it care only about the blue msgs and how to get as much OP combo as they can. Role-play does not mean OP tech really.
That might be right if only your premise of OP combo is right. But how I see people here sees everything as op which is not same ship same gun for some reason. Even if there is totaly no evidence to support it.