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+---- Thread: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed (/showthread.php?tid=105610)
RE: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed - henriking - 10-06-2013
Caps are weak yes specaly BS, and most of all Heavy BS that cant douge anything.
Caps are geting weaker and weaker in every new mod in disco.
Who remember caps in 4.85 they were not OP at all but they can hold the graund and delever some punishment to bombers that came to near.
I remember my legate in 4.85 with 2 razor mount on the top that i could kill bombers or GB who dint break fast their atack run.
now the bomber can shoot nova from distance can shoot snacs from near and get out or even dance a little before i can even drop their shield.
You can say oo but you can put 2 razors on the top of the legate even now!!!
But if you put on 2 heavy slots 2 razors you are totaly out for caps fight.
Now for a heavy BS 2 or 3 cerebs is a must or other BS will tear you apart.
1 Missile is a must or cruisers will tear you apart.
Many new things have ben add to disco but for the BS nothing and PLS dont tell me that they put gattling solaries or
lazer turrets coz both dont work.
RE: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed - Scumbag - 10-06-2013
If you like bombers so much then have fun playing with them. ALONE.
RE: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed - Mr.Fabulous - 10-06-2013
(10-06-2013, 01:14 AM)Scumbag Wrote: If you don't see how stupid it is to have a game with huge imposing, intimidating capital ships manned by hundreds of capable trained people, designed for planetary conquests, space exploration and glorious battles, that die when atacked by two puny ships with one cannon each. Then there is no cure for you, sorry.
Essential Answer: Game Limitations.
Detailed Answer:
If you don't research how many times this topic has been talked about, discussed, debated, argued, shouted at, scowled, denied, approved, THEN denied again, THEN approved before being clamored back to, then you'll need to learn how to use the "search", sorry.
If you don't see how exhausting it is that modders/balancers/encoders are constantly in the front lines trying to get through to the problems of justifying capships into the game, when it is evidently biased towards fighters due to evasion and aiming mechanics and ships, even capships, being run by SINGLE PLAYERS and not truly by multiple people that can man different positions on one ship (like how TRUE capships should be, where one can pilot cap and other could man guns, etc.), then you need to get immersed in the community more. Sorry.
If you don't see how stupid it is that when you alter one side to be nerfed/upped you DRASTICALLY ALTER the entire market for ships OVERNIGHT (ex: nerf bombers, increase capital ship usage, lessen usage of fighters because capships now have less check and balance; up bombers, decrease capital ship usage, LESSEN usage of ALMOST EVERY SHIP because bombers have powerful SNAC weapons that could down even heavy fighters with proper aiming skills), then there is no cure for you. Sorry.
So sorry... unless the community gets the source code from Microsoft, we can't do much more than balance the justification of capships over the edge of a knife.
Frankly, there's a big reason why the modern world's navies don't run on hulking battleships anymore. But I digress...
Personally, I'd want it that capships can only destroy other capships (and be run by multiple people), bombers can only destroy components of capship but not explode it (making capship disabled but not outright destroyed), bombers should be quick enough to dodge capship fire but have paper-thin armor to be downed by fighters VERY quickly.
RE: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed - Johl45 - 10-06-2013
(10-06-2013, 12:45 AM)Narcotic Wrote: Q_Q
Always the same about cap players complaining about bombers and bomber players complaining about caps. Some things never change. See, it's simple; bombers are designed to fight capitals. While capitals are designed to fight other capitals. If you want to fight bombers, you'll have to do it with a fighter or gunboat.
You won't get your hands on a ship which does good against every ship class. Blame balance.
I completely agree with narcotic on this matter battleships are not created to kill a bomber if caps start killing bombers then they won't be called bomber any longer will they ? also snack have perfect damage system because pirates too use bombers if snac are nerfed merchant's will flee with ease.
RE: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed - KaiserDietz - 10-06-2013
The problem with anti bomber guns is then bombers will be useless, they are terrible snub v snub, and only decent vs Gunboats. i like bombers because they force people to fly smaller capital vessels. With 5-6 cougars today, we managed to take down at least 6 capital ships alone with combined firepower. If you don't like nova torpedoes, invest in flak cannons, i find they are best for countering bomber long range strikes.
I don't suggest anti bomber weps, but i do suggest maybe buffing the cap ship hull and reducing the range of novas.
RE: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed - Trogdor - 10-06-2013
All you need to do is give Battleships a webifier beam equipment (maybe built at pobs) that consumes energy when activated to slow target ship (gunboat and smaller) by some significant %.
Large numbers of bombers will still be deadly, small numbers of bombers will now be managable (and more realistic).
"Bombers force people to fly smaller caps" then what is the point of BS? If they're not good at killing everything, what justifies their slow speed and large size?
RE: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed - Savas - 10-06-2013
That is a terrible idea in literally in every way. Caps are not supposed to be good at killing everything, nothing is; and any half decent cap pilot can easily deal with a few bombers, if a swarm of them shows up then it means you screwed up and stayed on the field too long without fighter cover.
Quote:small numbers of bombers will now be managable (and more realistic).
More realistic, you're kidding right? If we're talking about realism (which is barely compatible with FL as it is) the easiest way to kill a battleship in say, the WWII era, was not to throw another battleship at it but rather planes such as dive bombers (Basically snacs), torpedo bombers (Cough, cough, novas) and kamikaze (needs to be added to the mod); or perhaps smaller more maneuverable warships that can move faster and out of range of the guns of a battleship, such would've been cheaper in terms of material and personnel investment and thus a more attractive and realistic order of battle to a commander facing multiple capital ships.
tl;dr, bad idea - bombers are not op, stop complaining.
RE: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed - Scumbag - 10-06-2013
Bombers are not op it's snacs that are op.
You can't seem to understand that a noob only comes here to pilot a battleship and he grinds a month for it. He then dies in 5 minutes to two snac bombers and leaves for good.
But hey let's not think ahead, let's just care about ourselves. We have been doing what we are doing for two years and look at the great awesome results we've been having. Right, right?
WRONG!
RE: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed - t0l - 10-06-2013
I have noticed that.
Noob comes around, later I see him in a cap.
Over the next week, I see a couple of blue messages with him on the recieving end.
After that, never see him again.
There's something wrong here for sure.
RE: Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed - Pel - 10-06-2013
Discovery is far from vanilla FL, but just to remind you, in the original single player campaign Trent was required to take out several battleships and gunboats in order to stop the evil Rheinland fleet and their infected leader.
I'm sure some of you were more sensible than me, but I did that in a Dromedary (pecking away at each weapon until the guns were gone). So FL is not realistic. That's the starting point.
(10-06-2013, 04:10 AM)Savas Wrote: More realistic, you're kidding right? If we're talking about realism (which is barely compatible with FL as it is) the easiest way to kill a battleship in say, the WWII era, was not to throw another battleship at it but rather planes such as dive bombers (Basically snacs), torpedo bombers (Cough, cough, novas) and kamikaze
This is true. When you think about it, every space sim is a version of WWII in space because we love the excitement of dogfighters. Planes and bombers were very effective against ground troops (FL bases and weapons platforms) and naval vessels (FL caps), albeit with high casualties.
The classic story repeated in vanilla FL, Star Wars and in many other sci-fi stories is the ace pilot vanquishing a much more powerful foe through skill and determination. David and Goliath in space.