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+--- Thread: Battleship Inferno (/showthread.php?tid=10890)
Battleship Inferno - Zapp - 08-02-2008
Did you guys even read past the first sentence... :facepalm:
Battleship Inferno - chopper - 08-02-2008
Order being allies to Zoners doesn't mean they are going to give them all their technology to sell it to whoever they like.
Would you do that? Really?
So, I guess, Zoners have a cloaking device on Juggernauts?
And they are selling them to Outcasts, Dragons, GC, Hackers and Rogues.
Yeah right, makes sense.
Being allied doesn't mean "sharing technology".
Order having Supernovas doesn't mean giving them to Zoners, especially because Zoners DON'T need it, since they are peaceful.
They would maybe exchange technology with the Corsairs, but Zoners have nothing to offer them in exchange.
That simple.
Honestly, I think you'r not being objective here. It's an Outcast talking, not you.:P
Battleship Inferno - Zapp - 08-02-2008
Maybe its just that I see the Inferno as a very Outcast-only deal, and the fact that capital ships don't need them to win fights (whereas bombers need SNs, everyone needs armor [which was my second and more important reason:dry:]). The Order/Zoner thing was just something I pulled out of thin air.
Battleship Inferno - chopper - 08-02-2008
Yes but, Armor VIII makes you better then Armor VI, right?
Well, Inferno makes you better then having no Inferno.
Light Mortar/Mortar/Heavy Mortar - same.
You don't really need Mortars on BS's, but it's the only "heavy weapon" available, and it's accepted free for all.
While fighters can substitute inferno with shield busters (del cids or debs), capital ships can't.
There's no alternative to GB Inferno, Cruiser Inferno or BS Inferno.
Now, if you watch it completely objective, it would actually be balanced.
Outcast capital ships (and allies) would be the only ones to carry Infernos, while Order and Corsairs would be the only ones able to carry Mortars/LM's/HM's.
That way it would probably be balanced, yes.
Basically, Outcasts wouldn't mount Mortars, Corsairs wouldn't mount Infernos. That's it.
Battleship Inferno - n00bl3t - 08-02-2008
Eh. Leave it alone. We got enough rules as is.
Battleship Inferno - AdamantineFist - 08-02-2008
Honestly, I think it would be best if we gave out either some factionized Infernos, or made the current one into a generic one and gave the Outcasts their own, better Inferno.
Battleship Inferno - MB52 - 08-02-2008
The problem then turns to giving each faction something unique and equal?
Cause if you strictly follow the ID, alot of factions can only use the default gear.
Most the the equipment is made by the Order or Outcasts... that seems unbalanced.
Anyhow, I never really intended this to become a debate... I can see Zapp's point, but what other option is there? Sure, strictly speaking you "don't" need the infernos, like a bomber needs a SN, but it does somewhat uneven the playing field, if certain factions have access to heavy artillery, and others have nothing to balance that off.
Of course, maybe I'm just being dense and there is something to balance things (mostly for liberty), but I don't think liberty has any special weapons/gear that they make besides primary turrets. But if there is feel free to let me know.
Maybe in the next version of the mod, special weapons for each faction could be added?
Battleship Inferno - Jinx - 08-02-2008
there are several ways to deal with that problem:
be very strict about equipment - means that houses and outcasts will be VERY much roleplaying, but also very much in a disadvantage. - the order does indeed gain the edge over them by using universal 8 and capital 8 armour. - the zoners will NOT sell it to anyone but their allies.
in a fighter battle, the outcats will only use universal-3 armour, while the order will use 8. - capital warships of the order will be balanced again, cause the low base armour of the osiris will be compensated by the capital 8 armour, whilch will put it to an equal level of the liberty dreadnaught which will only use capital 3 armour - or even the outcast dreadnaught, which is limited to cap 2 or 3 armour, too. - furthermore, the order will be using mortar technology to rip the enemies hulls quicker. - the outcasts will use infernos, to break the shields - but will have more trouble with the hulls
this scenario IS indeed balanced. - it would put the order and its allies to where they should be "roleplaywise". - but it would also be very unfair - giving the order a VAST technological advantage.
be tolerant with equipment - means something like right now. - however, it would also mean that the outcast fighter-inferno would be shares as the order supernova. - it shows that a bomber with inferno + SN has a considerable advantage to a bomber with only one SN.... for the missions its designed to perform , which is an anti - capship role.
furthermore, it is only VHF WITH inferno that are actually able to fight warships like gunships.. while fighter without are too weak - generally. - now, the inferno is jealously guarded by the outcasts, and they do not like to let go.... - so tolerance here is unlikely.
the last version is addition - meaning to go the same way with the inferno that we went with the supernova. - make factionized infernos. - i daresay, the outcasts wouldn t be happy with that. - seeing that the order supernova in the concepts is not the best one anymore - but actually rather average. - if the outcasts faced factionized infernos and saw half the other infernos being better than theirs ( the original one ) it would cause some uproar. - however, it would be the "fairest" way to go - as i consider the inferno an almost equally important tool for fighting an enemy capital ship as the supernova.
with an inferno, i can solo an enemy cruiser - cause i can keep its shields down while scoring a hull hit with the SN. - naturally, i can use a minirazor, too though, but to a lesser efficiency.
we had that one before. - if players were really true to themselves. - the whole balance between corsairs and outcasts would be renewed and - probably it would work again.. - with the titans able to use armour type 8 - and the sabres only use type 3, the titans would again be real tanks against the sabres. - the "weak" osiris able to mount mortars and cap 8 armour, and its enemies stuck to cap 3 armour and primary / secondary turrets would mean that it could roleplay its technological advantage. - however, being outnumbered most of the time and forced to rather covered operations and strict RP events, things would be fine ( i think )
too bad, we lack the will/courage to actually try that way out. cause we fear to loose too much - everyones too used to their standard universal 8 armour on their fighters and wouldn t wanne loose their precious mortars and supernovas - even if it would put the factions to where they are supposed to be ... in terms of RP - thats a little when pvp becomes more important than a plausible and believable RP enviroment, when it becomes more important to win a battle than to stay authentic.
Battleship Inferno - Teknikal - 08-02-2008
It does seem kind of out of RP to me but I like infernos to much plus I hate missile turrets so my Bretonian Gunboat got one anyways. I did include it in the RP though even though I knew I didn't have to just figured it was worth explaining even though it's technically a free to all at the minute.
Saying that though I'd never equip a Razor on one of my outcast characters that would just feel wrong.
Battleship Inferno - Primus Avatar - 08-02-2008
just leave it....zoners are free for all.
it may not be realistic if you say "they wouldn't sell it to someone who isn't their ally"
um...
1) What makes you say that the entire zoner population is fond of pirates and civil wars?
2) What makes you say that the zoners don't need UBER weapons? They manage to remain neutral BECAUSE they have such amazing tech and military forces, everyone knows it...but they tend to forget. The wars in the future are easily won with lots of cash. Zoners are the real winners because they are rich and don't have enemies.
3) Maybe some zoners really care more bout cash and their own skin than their allies (isn't that logical?)
So they sell 1
I SAY 1
cap 8 upgrade to a....lets say....outcast Battleship captain.
its like....800 mil? they can build 4 cruisers for that cash right?
so basic...they are uber powerful traders with major capital and vast hidden fleets.
They wont spend their 4 cruisers since they are not at war....they will keep them safe and amass them for when they need it. (they re decentralised and that makes them vulnerable. So its logical that they require good relationships with all other nations by selling adv. tech to them. And need to amass forces just in case something goes wrong.)
Remember...Zoners are smart...they wont make the wrong move. They got too much to lose.