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+---- Thread: Removal of Cerbs/General Capital Weaponry overhaul (/showthread.php?tid=132460)
RE: Removal of Cerberus Turrets - Komitoza - 08-09-2015
(08-09-2015, 03:26 PM)Snoopy Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:24 PM)SwagBunny Wrote: I understand removal or reworking the Battleship Cerbs.
But Cruisers are really crippled without them, given that they virtually do no damage to heavier ships with their primaries. And mortar spam isn't as effective as it used to be...
They're only crippled if you believe they're an only anti battleship. Destroyers and Cruisers should really be there to deal with the gunboat threat and normal, non cerb, guns would do that well.
I'm just saying. Even if they are there to take care of smaller targets like gunboats and other cruisers. Against a battleship or a BC they dont stand a chance. And fights aren't very organized, people find themselves in situations where they have to fend off Heavy Battleships in a Katsaguchi, or an Osiris in a Thresher.
"Destoryer" Aren't they supposed to destroy things, large or small?
RE: Removal of Cerberus Turrets - Wesker - 08-09-2015
Replace with house cerbs same stats different looks
RE: Removal of Cerberus Turrets - Komitoza - 08-09-2015
(08-09-2015, 03:49 PM)Wesker Wrote: Replace with house cerbs same stats different looks
That statement made my day.
RE: Removal of Cerberus Turrets - Titan* - 08-09-2015
(08-09-2015, 03:30 PM)SwagBunny Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:26 PM)Snoopy Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:24 PM)SwagBunny Wrote: I understand removal or reworking the Battleship Cerbs.
But Cruisers are really crippled without them, given that they virtually do no damage to heavier ships with their primaries. And mortar spam isn't as effective as it used to be...
They're only crippled if you believe they're an only anti battleship. Destroyers and Cruisers should really be there to deal with the gunboat threat and normal, non cerb, guns would do that well.
I'm just saying. Even if they are there to take care of smaller targets like gunboats and other cruisers. Against a battleship or a BC they dont stand a chance. And fights aren't very organized, people find themselves in situations where they have to fend off Heavy Battleships in a Katsaguchi, or an Osiris in a Thresher.
"Destoryer" Aren't they supposed to destroy things, large or small?
They do stand chance against Battleship or Battlecruiser, If you fly like an idiot and ram the battleship or battlecruiser you will die. It is easy to destroy Battleships in destroyers and Light Cruisers. Thresher can dodge Osiris guns from 500-600m easly, Katsaguchi too.
It is %100 possible to destroy Battleship with Mortar/Primary weapons even only with primary weapons but you have to fly very carefully
About Battlecruisers, They are Cruiser-Killer. Again, if you are good in Destroyers/Cruisers you can destroy the Battlecruiser except for the Cloaker ones, they will destroy you in seconds.
RE: Removal of Cerberus Turrets - Komitoza - 08-09-2015
(08-09-2015, 03:52 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:30 PM)SwagBunny Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:26 PM)Snoopy Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:24 PM)SwagBunny Wrote: I understand removal or reworking the Battleship Cerbs.
But Cruisers are really crippled without them, given that they virtually do no damage to heavier ships with their primaries. And mortar spam isn't as effective as it used to be...
They're only crippled if you believe they're an only anti battleship. Destroyers and Cruisers should really be there to deal with the gunboat threat and normal, non cerb, guns would do that well.
I'm just saying. Even if they are there to take care of smaller targets like gunboats and other cruisers. Against a battleship or a BC they dont stand a chance. And fights aren't very organized, people find themselves in situations where they have to fend off Heavy Battleships in a Katsaguchi, or an Osiris in a Thresher.
"Destoryer" Aren't they supposed to destroy things, large or small?
They do stand chance against Battleship or Battlecruiser, If you fly like an idiot and ram the battleship or battlecruiser you will die. It is easy to destroy Battleships in destroyers and Light Cruisers. Thresher can dodge Osiris guns from 500-600m easly, Katsaguchi too.
It is %100 possible to destroy Battleship with Mortar/Primary weapons even only with primary weapons but you have to fly very carefully
About Battlecruisers, They are Cruiser-Killer. Again, if you are good in Destroyers/Cruisers you can destroy the Battlecruiser except for the Cloaker ones, they will destroy you in seconds.
Point, but you have to consider the projectile speed of a Light Mortar which is easy to dodge in Light Battleships, and even Medium ones, only tanks are 99% hit chance. Also you have to consider the powerplant of a Cruiser, especially light destroyers like a Thresher or Siege Cruisers. It takes around 70%? maybe a bit less of your powerplant to fire a single Mortar from an LSC/Katsaguchi. And the damage isn't that significant against ships with CAU6 or up+regeneration rates which deny you damage when the shields bring up. Have you tried killing a CAU8 Marduk with 3 Scyllas? It takes time, and that was with support of at least 4 Dual Nova bombers. If the Scyllas had only primaries it would take A LOT longer. Without bomber support, you are screwed. Removing Cruiser Cerbs would make them useless against anything larger then a Gunboat, and sometimes even useless against the Gunboats themselves as full Cerb gunboats are eh...goo, or useless against an other Cruiser.
RE: Removal of Cerberus Turrets - Titan* - 08-09-2015
(08-09-2015, 04:02 PM)SwagBunny Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:52 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:30 PM)SwagBunny Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:26 PM)Snoopy Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:24 PM)SwagBunny Wrote: I understand removal or reworking the Battleship Cerbs.
But Cruisers are really crippled without them, given that they virtually do no damage to heavier ships with their primaries. And mortar spam isn't as effective as it used to be...
They're only crippled if you believe they're an only anti battleship. Destroyers and Cruisers should really be there to deal with the gunboat threat and normal, non cerb, guns would do that well.
I'm just saying. Even if they are there to take care of smaller targets like gunboats and other cruisers. Against a battleship or a BC they dont stand a chance. And fights aren't very organized, people find themselves in situations where they have to fend off Heavy Battleships in a Katsaguchi, or an Osiris in a Thresher.
"Destoryer" Aren't they supposed to destroy things, large or small?
They do stand chance against Battleship or Battlecruiser, If you fly like an idiot and ram the battleship or battlecruiser you will die. It is easy to destroy Battleships in destroyers and Light Cruisers. Thresher can dodge Osiris guns from 500-600m easly, Katsaguchi too.
It is %100 possible to destroy Battleship with Mortar/Primary weapons even only with primary weapons but you have to fly very carefully
About Battlecruisers, They are Cruiser-Killer. Again, if you are good in Destroyers/Cruisers you can destroy the Battlecruiser except for the Cloaker ones, they will destroy you in seconds.
Point, but you have to consider the projectile speed of a Light Mortar which is easy to dodge in Light Battleships, and even Medium ones, only tanks are 99% hit chance. Also you have to consider the powerplant of a Cruiser, especially light destroyers like a Thresher or Siege Cruisers. It takes around 70%? maybe a bit less of your powerplant to fire a single Mortar from an LSC/Katsaguchi. And the damage isn't that significant against ships with CAU6 or up+regeneration rates which deny you damage when the shields bring up. Have you tried killing a CAU8 Marduk with 3 Scyllas? It takes time, and that was with support of at least 4 Dual Nova bombers. If the Scyllas had only primaries it would take A LOT longer. Without bomber support, you are screwed. Removing Cruiser Cerbs would make them useless against anything larger then a Gunboat, or an other Cruiser.
Well, Not for me. Btw why you using Mortar on LSC/Katsaguchi, You can use FW guns and takes more low energy to fire and you can fire 3-4 times before you lost all of your energy
Thresher still very small and easy to kill battleships with it.
Taking down Marduk with 3 Scylla takes time? Of course, it must take A LOT longer time. 3 Scylla with cerb setup (4+4+4) will destroy the Marduk in 2minute. One of the biggest dreadnoughts and strongest flying fish dies in 2minute? Really?
4 Cerb deals 72k DMG per second
3 Scylla can deal 216k Dmg per second.
even Single Scylla can destroy Marduk, I think you don't know how to fly capital ships, you better stay away from caps
RE: Removal of Cerberus Turrets - Komitoza - 08-09-2015
(08-09-2015, 04:10 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-09-2015, 04:02 PM)SwagBunny Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:52 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:30 PM)SwagBunny Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:26 PM)Snoopy Wrote: They're only crippled if you believe they're an only anti battleship. Destroyers and Cruisers should really be there to deal with the gunboat threat and normal, non cerb, guns would do that well.
I'm just saying. Even if they are there to take care of smaller targets like gunboats and other cruisers. Against a battleship or a BC they dont stand a chance. And fights aren't very organized, people find themselves in situations where they have to fend off Heavy Battleships in a Katsaguchi, or an Osiris in a Thresher.
"Destoryer" Aren't they supposed to destroy things, large or small?
They do stand chance against Battleship or Battlecruiser, If you fly like an idiot and ram the battleship or battlecruiser you will die. It is easy to destroy Battleships in destroyers and Light Cruisers. Thresher can dodge Osiris guns from 500-600m easly, Katsaguchi too.
It is %100 possible to destroy Battleship with Mortar/Primary weapons even only with primary weapons but you have to fly very carefully
About Battlecruisers, They are Cruiser-Killer. Again, if you are good in Destroyers/Cruisers you can destroy the Battlecruiser except for the Cloaker ones, they will destroy you in seconds.
Point, but you have to consider the projectile speed of a Light Mortar which is easy to dodge in Light Battleships, and even Medium ones, only tanks are 99% hit chance. Also you have to consider the powerplant of a Cruiser, especially light destroyers like a Thresher or Siege Cruisers. It takes around 70%? maybe a bit less of your powerplant to fire a single Mortar from an LSC/Katsaguchi. And the damage isn't that significant against ships with CAU6 or up+regeneration rates which deny you damage when the shields bring up. Have you tried killing a CAU8 Marduk with 3 Scyllas? It takes time, and that was with support of at least 4 Dual Nova bombers. If the Scyllas had only primaries it would take A LOT longer. Without bomber support, you are screwed. Removing Cruiser Cerbs would make them useless against anything larger then a Gunboat, or an other Cruiser.
Well, Not for me. Btw why you using Mortar on LSC/Katsaguchi, You can use FW guns and takes more low energy to fire and you can fire 3-4 times before you lost all of your energy
Thresher still very small and easy to kill battleships with it.
Taking down Marduk with 3 Scylla takes time? Of course, it must take A LOT longer time. 3 Scylla with cerb setup (4+4+4) will destroy the Marduk in 2minute. One of the biggest dreadnoughts and strongest flying fish dies in 2minute? Really?
4 Cerb deals 72k DMG per second
3 Scylla can deal 216k Dmg per second.
even Single Scylla can destroy Marduk, I think you don't know how to fly capital ships, you better stay away from caps
First of all lets not make this personal, it is just my own opinion.
I fly my Siege Cruisers and Thresher with 2 Cerbs, I tested out the backfiering mortar on my Katsaguchi as I made it with Solaris/Razor to kill snubs with it. So I needed something to keep the other caps off. Forward gunning someone in a Siege Cruiser is the go-to tactics. But those can be dodged too, and just because it is possible for you to kill a larger capital in a ship of the sort alone, doesn't mean that every single opponent will be skill capped, or unaware of what to do in the situation. Those tactic can be countered too. The thing is only 1 Scylla had Cerbs, the other 2 had Prims/Razors, so it took its sweet time. And the thing is not everyone can pilot capitals at the same level, some people are better some people are worse. I'v been snub whoring since I joined this place, so off course I wont be as good as the big boys, but I still know stuff.
Edit: Without cruiser cerbs a Thresher cant scratch a battleship. (: If you haven't noticed this whole argument was supposed to be about the removal of Cruiser Cerberus. And you prove me somewhat right at a point.
RE: Removal of Cerberus Turrets - Wesker - 08-09-2015
(08-09-2015, 04:10 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-09-2015, 04:02 PM)SwagBunny Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:52 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:30 PM)SwagBunny Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:26 PM)Snoopy Wrote: They're only crippled if you believe they're an only anti battleship. Destroyers and Cruisers should really be there to deal with the gunboat threat and normal, non cerb, guns would do that well.
I'm just saying. Even if they are there to take care of smaller targets like gunboats and other cruisers. Against a battleship or a BC they dont stand a chance. And fights aren't very organized, people find themselves in situations where they have to fend off Heavy Battleships in a Katsaguchi, or an Osiris in a Thresher.
"Destoryer" Aren't they supposed to destroy things, large or small?
They do stand chance against Battleship or Battlecruiser, If you fly like an idiot and ram the battleship or battlecruiser you will die. It is easy to destroy Battleships in destroyers and Light Cruisers. Thresher can dodge Osiris guns from 500-600m easly, Katsaguchi too.
It is %100 possible to destroy Battleship with Mortar/Primary weapons even only with primary weapons but you have to fly very carefully
About Battlecruisers, They are Cruiser-Killer. Again, if you are good in Destroyers/Cruisers you can destroy the Battlecruiser except for the Cloaker ones, they will destroy you in seconds.
Point, but you have to consider the projectile speed of a Light Mortar which is easy to dodge in Light Battleships, and even Medium ones, only tanks are 99% hit chance. Also you have to consider the powerplant of a Cruiser, especially light destroyers like a Thresher or Siege Cruisers. It takes around 70%? maybe a bit less of your powerplant to fire a single Mortar from an LSC/Katsaguchi. And the damage isn't that significant against ships with CAU6 or up+regeneration rates which deny you damage when the shields bring up. Have you tried killing a CAU8 Marduk with 3 Scyllas? It takes time, and that was with support of at least 4 Dual Nova bombers. If the Scyllas had only primaries it would take A LOT longer. Without bomber support, you are screwed. Removing Cruiser Cerbs would make them useless against anything larger then a Gunboat, or an other Cruiser.
Well, Not for me. Btw why you using Mortar on LSC/Katsaguchi, You can use FW guns and takes more low energy to fire and you can fire 3-4 times before you lost all of your energy
Thresher still very small and easy to kill battleships with it.
Taking down Marduk with 3 Scylla takes time? Of course, it must take A LOT longer time. 3 Scylla with cerb setup (4+4+4) will destroy the Marduk in 2minute. One of the biggest dreadnoughts and strongest flying fish dies in 2minute? Really?
4 Cerb deals 72k DMG per second
3 Scylla can deal 216k Dmg per second.
even Single Scylla can destroy Marduk, I think you don't know how to fly capital ships, you better stay away from caps
Crusiers are made to kill battleships.
When was the last time you saw a Scylla face up against a marduk.
Also thats assuming the Scyllas have cerb setups, most dessie pilots set them up with other guns. Also energy runs out and DPS drops.
The Marduk would ruin the 3 Scyllas, Scylla is too big to dodge hit it with the FG or with secondaries and it will die.
Assuming the Marduk pilot has no skill it will take 2 mins.
Pls dont drag the thresher into this it takes no effort to fly a thresher no BS will kill a thresher.
RE: Removal of Cerberus Turrets - Titan* - 08-09-2015
(08-09-2015, 04:22 PM)Wesker Wrote:(08-09-2015, 04:10 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-09-2015, 04:02 PM)SwagBunny Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:52 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:30 PM)SwagBunny Wrote: I'm just saying. Even if they are there to take care of smaller targets like gunboats and other cruisers. Against a battleship or a BC they dont stand a chance. And fights aren't very organized, people find themselves in situations where they have to fend off Heavy Battleships in a Katsaguchi, or an Osiris in a Thresher.
"Destoryer" Aren't they supposed to destroy things, large or small?
They do stand chance against Battleship or Battlecruiser, If you fly like an idiot and ram the battleship or battlecruiser you will die. It is easy to destroy Battleships in destroyers and Light Cruisers. Thresher can dodge Osiris guns from 500-600m easly, Katsaguchi too.
It is %100 possible to destroy Battleship with Mortar/Primary weapons even only with primary weapons but you have to fly very carefully
About Battlecruisers, They are Cruiser-Killer. Again, if you are good in Destroyers/Cruisers you can destroy the Battlecruiser except for the Cloaker ones, they will destroy you in seconds.
Point, but you have to consider the projectile speed of a Light Mortar which is easy to dodge in Light Battleships, and even Medium ones, only tanks are 99% hit chance. Also you have to consider the powerplant of a Cruiser, especially light destroyers like a Thresher or Siege Cruisers. It takes around 70%? maybe a bit less of your powerplant to fire a single Mortar from an LSC/Katsaguchi. And the damage isn't that significant against ships with CAU6 or up+regeneration rates which deny you damage when the shields bring up. Have you tried killing a CAU8 Marduk with 3 Scyllas? It takes time, and that was with support of at least 4 Dual Nova bombers. If the Scyllas had only primaries it would take A LOT longer. Without bomber support, you are screwed. Removing Cruiser Cerbs would make them useless against anything larger then a Gunboat, or an other Cruiser.
Well, Not for me. Btw why you using Mortar on LSC/Katsaguchi, You can use FW guns and takes more low energy to fire and you can fire 3-4 times before you lost all of your energy
Thresher still very small and easy to kill battleships with it.
Taking down Marduk with 3 Scylla takes time? Of course, it must take A LOT longer time. 3 Scylla with cerb setup (4+4+4) will destroy the Marduk in 2minute. One of the biggest dreadnoughts and strongest flying fish dies in 2minute? Really?
4 Cerb deals 72k DMG per second
3 Scylla can deal 216k Dmg per second.
even Single Scylla can destroy Marduk, I think you don't know how to fly capital ships, you better stay away from caps
Crusiers are made to kill battleships.
When was the last time you saw a Scylla face up against a marduk.
Also thats assuming the Scyllas have cerb setups, most dessie pilots set them up with other guns. Also energy runs out and DPS drops.
The Marduk would ruin the 3 Scyllas, Scylla is too big to dodge hit it with the FG or with secondaries and it will die.
Assuming the Marduk pilot has no skill it will take 2 mins.
Pls dont drag the thresher into this it takes no effort to fly a thresher no BS will kill a thresher.
In conn you can see marduk
Scylla too big? I was destroying whole Libertonian fleet with 1 Scylla and 2-3 gunboat. (remember tutashkhia and his squad also titanbot)
Marduk don't have FG* (only Valor can destroy any destroyer/cruiser)
If you fly carefully you don't get hit by Secondaries, I thought you know that.
3 Scylla can use Mortar instead of Cerberus, Mortar can hit Marduk everytime
RE: Removal of Cerberus Turrets - Wesker - 08-09-2015
(08-09-2015, 04:28 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-09-2015, 04:22 PM)Wesker Wrote:(08-09-2015, 04:10 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-09-2015, 04:02 PM)SwagBunny Wrote:(08-09-2015, 03:52 PM)Titan Wrote: They do stand chance against Battleship or Battlecruiser, If you fly like an idiot and ram the battleship or battlecruiser you will die. It is easy to destroy Battleships in destroyers and Light Cruisers. Thresher can dodge Osiris guns from 500-600m easly, Katsaguchi too.
It is %100 possible to destroy Battleship with Mortar/Primary weapons even only with primary weapons but you have to fly very carefully
About Battlecruisers, They are Cruiser-Killer. Again, if you are good in Destroyers/Cruisers you can destroy the Battlecruiser except for the Cloaker ones, they will destroy you in seconds.
Point, but you have to consider the projectile speed of a Light Mortar which is easy to dodge in Light Battleships, and even Medium ones, only tanks are 99% hit chance. Also you have to consider the powerplant of a Cruiser, especially light destroyers like a Thresher or Siege Cruisers. It takes around 70%? maybe a bit less of your powerplant to fire a single Mortar from an LSC/Katsaguchi. And the damage isn't that significant against ships with CAU6 or up+regeneration rates which deny you damage when the shields bring up. Have you tried killing a CAU8 Marduk with 3 Scyllas? It takes time, and that was with support of at least 4 Dual Nova bombers. If the Scyllas had only primaries it would take A LOT longer. Without bomber support, you are screwed. Removing Cruiser Cerbs would make them useless against anything larger then a Gunboat, or an other Cruiser.
Well, Not for me. Btw why you using Mortar on LSC/Katsaguchi, You can use FW guns and takes more low energy to fire and you can fire 3-4 times before you lost all of your energy
Thresher still very small and easy to kill battleships with it.
Taking down Marduk with 3 Scylla takes time? Of course, it must take A LOT longer time. 3 Scylla with cerb setup (4+4+4) will destroy the Marduk in 2minute. One of the biggest dreadnoughts and strongest flying fish dies in 2minute? Really?
4 Cerb deals 72k DMG per second
3 Scylla can deal 216k Dmg per second.
even Single Scylla can destroy Marduk, I think you don't know how to fly capital ships, you better stay away from caps
Crusiers are made to kill battleships.
When was the last time you saw a Scylla face up against a marduk.
Also thats assuming the Scyllas have cerb setups, most dessie pilots set them up with other guns. Also energy runs out and DPS drops.
The Marduk would ruin the 3 Scyllas, Scylla is too big to dodge hit it with the FG or with secondaries and it will die.
Assuming the Marduk pilot has no skill it will take 2 mins.
Pls dont drag the thresher into this it takes no effort to fly a thresher no BS will kill a thresher.
In conn you can see marduk
Scylla too big? I was destroying whole Libertonian fleet with 1 Scylla and 2-3 gunboat. (remember tutashkhia and his squad also titanbot)
Marduk don't have FG* (only Valor can destroy any destroyer/cruiser)
If you fly carefully you don't get hit by Secondaries, I thought you know that.
3 Scylla can use Mortar instead of Cerberus, Mortar can hit Marduk everytime
Conn is a different story.
Well yea when its against the lolns 1 dessie and 2-3 gbs will ruin i was in the GNG ik that.
I swore the marduk had a FG on it.
You can dodge secondaries in smaller dessies, but up close a scylla will get nailed regardless due to its size.
Light mortars still require energy, combine them with prims and DPS can drop even lower.
Ofc if the Scylla pilots are skilled than the Marduk will die, but im taking into consideration that there are only a few cap pilots on the same level as you and I [: