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+--- Thread: Are the battleships useless ? (/showthread.php?tid=132791)
RE: Are the battleships useless ? - bormos3 - 08-20-2015
Is it possible to nerf only the damage to specific targets? For example to nerf the damage cruisers deal to battleships?
RE: Are the battleships useless ? - Laura C. - 08-20-2015
(08-20-2015, 03:59 PM)Scumbag Wrote: You are exaggerating about how easy a battleship can die but underneath that is a valid question. What roles should ships have in a standard battlefield (battlespace actually)? I should haven't seen an official answer for this question, because yeah battleships are a real disappointment in discovery.Battleships became obsolete during 20th century when their role of superiority creating asset was taken by carriers, nuclear submarines and ballistic missiles. Thus it is good question why they even are in Disco. Only justification which came to my mind is:
1. Planetary bombardment.
2. Theoretical situation when electronic warfare is so advanced that big ships are invulnerable to all torpedos and missiles as well as bombers (because they have good anti-locking jamming systems and flaks and gatlings and so on), thus only un-guided projectiles can be used. In this case the old "the bigger, the better" rule (which led to construction of big battlehips in history) can be valid again and battleships with all razors and mortars can be useful again.
Though this scenario wouldn´t be fun if implemented to game. Disco follow one of basic rules of multiplayer games when key to get superiority is number of players, not the ship flown. I don´t think that situation when ten players in snubs are powerless against one player in battleship is something what is desired.
Thus battleships are vulnerable if they fly alone, but that´s actually nothing new. Even in real life you never see carrier sail alone, there is always whole ship group which helps to protect them. And same was used for battlehips in earlier times. Lone battleship or carrier always meant very vulnerable battleship or carrier.
RE: Are the battleships useless ? - jammi - 08-20-2015
(08-20-2015, 04:20 PM)bormos3 Wrote: Is it possible to nerf only the damage to specific targets? For example to nerf the damage cruisers deal to battleships?
Technically yes, using shield modifiers. Each capital ship class could be given its own weapon damage type - basically, the way positron/gravitron shields work with modifiers against laser/plasma/tachyon, etc.
So cruisers could be made less effective against battleship shields, or large capital ships could be penalised against transports if that was so desired. Whether that's a good idea is a whole different matter.
Mind you, the modifier would only apply to shields, and shields are pathetically easy to strip off for battleships, so it might not even make that much of a difference outside 1v1 fights.
RE: Are the battleships useless ? - TheFreelancer - 08-20-2015
(08-20-2015, 03:32 PM)Scar Wrote: Please dont take the topic wrong like "pfff another buff battleship pls".Tbh, bombers and cruisers were sorta designed to take down battleships, but as sindroms said, there is an advantage to them!
Explain your point of view, i see that battleship are missing something.
What is their purpose apart RP ?
4+ Fighters can kill easily a battleship
1 Bombers is enough to kill easily a battleship
1 Cruiser is enought to kill easily a battleship
I even saw a gunboat take down a non amored battleship.
For my point of view they are useless, good only to RP or kill other battleships (even there are better candidates).
Usually for game balancing is used the rock paper scissor method, now it's like they lose with everything and go draw with themselves.
What is your opinion?
RE: Are the battleships useless ? - Scar - 08-20-2015
(08-20-2015, 04:23 PM)Laura C. Wrote:Yeah i think the same with planetary bombardment.(08-20-2015, 03:59 PM)Scumbag Wrote: You are exaggerating about how easy a battleship can die but underneath that is a valid question. What roles should ships have in a standard battlefield (battlespace actually)? I should haven't seen an official answer for this question, because yeah battleships are a real disappointment in discovery.Battleships became obsolete during 20th century when their role of superiority creating asset was taken by carriers, nuclear submarines and ballistic missiles. Thus it is good question why they even are in Disco. Only justification which came to my mind is:
1. Planetary bombardment.
2. Theoretical situation when electronic warfare is so advanced that big ships are invulnerable to all torpedos and missiles as well as bombers (because they have good anti-locking jamming systems and flaks and gatlings and so on), thus only un-guided projectiles can be used. In this case the old "the bigger, the better" rule (which led to construction of big battlehips in history) can be valid again and battleships with all razors and mortars can be useful again.
Though this scenario wouldn´t be fun if implemented to game. Disco follow one of basic rules of multiplayer games when key to get superiority is number of players, not the ship flown. I don´t think that situation when ten players in snubs are powerless against one player in battleship is something what is desired.
Thus battleships are vulnerable if they fly alone, but that´s actually nothing new. Even in real life you never see carrier sail alone, there is always whole ship group which helps to protect them. And same was used for battlehips in earlier times. Lone battleship or carrier always meant very vulnerable battleship or carrier.
But i think they are far too vulnerable, and missing a role.
I would prefer to have two cruisers in my fleet rather than two battleships.
For my personal taste, I would triple their cost, only given by permission on a forum request, but they should be something very tough to kill, so you need more than one cruiser, more than a group of 3 bombers, or you should bring with you another battleship.
Like in the freelancer singleplayer, when you got intercepted by rehinland, that battleship appear from the cloud and you are like OHH NO
RE: Are the battleships useless ? - Adam_Spire - 08-20-2015
Make everything have 1 hit point.
RE: Are the battleships useless ? - jammi - 08-20-2015
(08-20-2015, 04:43 PM)Scar Wrote: Like in the freelancer singleplayer, when you got intercepted by rehinland, that battleship appear from the cloud and you are like OHH NO
Following which two defector RM fighters (not even bombers) destroy it on their own, with four torpedos. Later you take out an entire RM fleet of battleships with a squad of four fighters (presuming your wingmen die). Single player isn't a good demonstration as to why our battleships should be stronger.
I'd also be strongly against any kind of system that requires manual intervention from the administration in order to approve battleships. Discovery has never had a particularly healthy bureaucracy, and placing that kind of additional burden will either cause it to snap, or people to quit as their applications are either ignored for months or processed haphazardly.
RE: Are the battleships useless ? - Wesker - 08-20-2015
(08-20-2015, 03:59 PM)Scumbag Wrote: You are exaggerating about how easy a battleship can die but underneath that is a valid question. What roles should ships have in a standard battlefield (battlespace actually)? I should haven't seen an official answer for this question, because yeah battleships are a real disappointment in discovery.
Your a real disappointment [:
If you actually get good battleships can be the most deadly shipclass on the battlefield.
If I can bring a valor to NL and kill 4 carriers 2gbs and 3bombers before I die than bs aren't a dissapointment.
Get good.
RE: Are the battleships useless ? - Scumbag - 08-20-2015
(08-20-2015, 04:23 PM)Laura C. Wrote: Battleships became obsolete during 20th century when their role of superiority creating asset was taken by carriers, nuclear submarines and ballistic missiles. Thus it is good question why they even are in Disco.
You are right, Freelancer imitates the 1920s - 1940s period in warfare, politics and architecture (art deco in Liberty for example). That's when battleships were at their peak. And it's one of the main reasons why it was successful and why Discovery was successful (imho), it was the mod that allowed you to captain battleships and completed the fleets of many other factions. But beginning with 4.86 the mod changed the way battles were fought, making battleships a big disappointment.
So that's why i said there is a good question behind the initial post. How do devs see the battlefield, what's the logic behind changes and what are battleships supposed to do in this game? I do not understand how the game works right now, i think it's incredibly unbalanced and that's why people left and this is just a shell of what the community used to be.
RE: Are the battleships useless ? - Scumbag - 08-20-2015
(08-20-2015, 07:18 PM)Wesker Wrote: Your a real disappointment [:
If you actually get good battleships can be the most deadly shipclass on the battlefield.
If I can bring a valor to NL and kill 4 carriers 2gbs and 3bombers before I die than bs aren't a dissapointment.
Get good.
I bow to your mighty skills and fart in your general direction.