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+--- Thread: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction (/showthread.php?tid=134564)
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Ramke - 01-03-2016
I have never really liked freighter, cap battles after the TZ/TS introduction. RM-LN raids were the most fun thing to do in 4.84, combat felt more.. tactical than the one-person-chases-while-the-other-runs we see today. Back then, you could could play tactical and have full mobility but sacrificing arcs or enabling all arcs but sacrificing mobility.
TS/TZ turned cap battles/duels into one, lighter (or narrower, less armoured, more agile) capital into running while firing backwards, the other is chasing. This is literally 95% of what I see. The other is just facetanking one another, no other tactics really.
That addition also made gunboats (and some freighters) literally unkillable unless you throw 5 players on one. Gunboats can't be killed by fighters and bombers unless massed (due to their agility and constant fending off) or by cruisers and battleships (due to their agility and size). It's literally the strongest class and the only thing that effectively counters it is just another gunboat. Even then the other one usually struggles to hit at a slightly bigger range.
Maybe I'm viewing it through nostalgia goggles and am stupid in your perspective (I might be, since I didn't play caps very much since TS/TZ was introduced anymore), but I really think stuff would be a lot more fun without steering or zooming. Maybe just limiting it to battleships or something.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Thunderer - 01-03-2016
(01-03-2016, 04:08 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: I see your point, Thunderer, but the problem is there are ships that heavily rely on ability to steer in order to avoid SNAC or Nova to the butt/face. Otherwise (without buffs as you stated) it would make them sitting ducks.
Hence the buffs
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - The Savage - 01-03-2016
(01-03-2016, 04:10 PM)Skorak Wrote: What about removing it for gunboats and freighters? Leaving this sort of maneuvering for the really heavy ships?
The problem is, current strenght of gunboats and transports comes from their ability to avoid Snac/Nova, as I stated above. I'm all for removal of TZ, but keeping TS intact.
Edit: removal of both TZ and TS should result in higher number hull hitpoints on all caps and transports, unless we want gunboats the class no one wants to fly.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Swallow - 01-03-2016
Stop using TZ and TS like if they do not exist without each other. (Because they do exist w/o each other and TS is actually built-in feature of FL, though activated by changing values in the FL.exe)
Fluffy pointed it correctly.
I will bring here once again:
TURRET STEERING IS NOT AN AUTOAIM. Turret zoom is.
Turret steering is just when you decide to fly using keyboard. What is so criminal about it?
Please, please, please, stop misunderstanding this particular case.
Back on topic: removing TZ will make caps/transports/freighters challenging but not as hopeless as they were back in .85.
Removing TS has no sense behind it.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Lythrilux - 01-03-2016
Also fyi zooming out all the way in a cap is what bad players do. And bad players die. It's not even as effective against snubcraft as people think because it screws with the rotation of your turrets.
Personally, when leading Core fleet raids I like to use zoom to give me a better look at the battlefield and to help me direct players and give them orders. It's great for organization and boosts teamwork.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - jammi - 01-03-2016
People seem to be waxing nostalgic about what pre-TS was actually like. This was the days where a pair of bombers using a touchpad could wreck the day of any capital ship.
And complaining about run-and-chase tactics? That was the only tactic. Lighter vessel runs and fires backwards with mortars from max range and tries to dodge while strafing. Steering allows for far more dynamic and nuanced combined fleet tactics.
In line with what Swallow said, TS isn't harmful but TZ may well be. Removing TS just results in forcing capital ships to tie one arm behind their back for no discernable reason.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Vendetta - 01-03-2016
Remove Gunboat Zoom.
/thread
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Titan* - 01-03-2016
Cruisers and Battleships are fine with Turret Steer/Zoom however TS/Zoom makes the gunboat invincible vs every class ship
(01-03-2016, 04:10 PM)Haste Wrote: gunboats getting three or four
Removing turret zoom for gunboats would be better
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Connor - 01-03-2016
I do not have a problem with removing this (:
Quote:TURRET STEERING IS NOT AN AUTOAIM. Turret zoom is.
Turret steering is just when you decide to fly using keyboard. What is so criminal about it?
That is a fair point though.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - evanz - 01-03-2016
So what’s being asked is to remove the turret zoom and steering, well to be honest if you’re going to ask that to be removed then why not remove all turrets!?
The reason there are turrets is to “look around” at targets that are attacking you, so, turret zoom is needed, otherwise it pointless and reducing the chance of a ship that has them, to have any defence at all,
inrp, each turret has a gunner, in the game we all know, that isn’t possible, so turret zoom is there
This whole request of “removing” it all is just to save the “blue wannabes” over powered fighters and now hellfire bombers from tears
Transports have been nerfed already, cerbs have been nerfed, are all the people want is snubs in th game!
NOPE!