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+--- Thread: Law enforcement and smugglers. (/showthread.php?tid=17068)
Law enforcement and smugglers. - jm01 - 02-28-2009
' Wrote:First off, camping jump holes is severely frowned upon. According to Agiera, jump holes are very dangerous and should not be used for transports. In the eyes of the law, this includes smugglers. Sure, they know that people are supplying the populace with cardi, but they can't tell where it's coming from.
Second, as Jammi said, transports never actually land, they moor to the mooring fixture and heavy lifters and other atmospheric craft unload them. It is a simple task for the law to inform these ground crews that ship callsign "x" is a smuggler and is not to be unloaded.
However, I would say that it is totally in RP for a freighter, or any small craft that can use the docking ring to dock when hailed by the law. Smaller craft are what should be supplying the planets, people in Dromedaries, CSVs and the like, even hauling 5-10 units in on a VHF.
Larger transport ships, pirate trains and the like, should be landing on the nearby Junker/pirate bases to offload and allowing the smaller freighters to do the riskier part. My smuggler has never touched a lawful base (the character is even hostile to most), and yet I have probably made enough cash on it to fund a battleship or 2 by now (I really don't trade much at all, as I find exceptionally boring).
Thing is, if you are flying a larger ship, the law does not need to stop you landing on a base, as, in RP, you do not "land" on the base, but rather attach to the mooring fixture (this is even true on non planetary bases...notice how they all have little mooring points modeled), so you would still be vulnerable to their guns and unable to unload cargo until clearance was given.
One thing I would advocate would be the (re)introduction of smuggled goods on the unlawful bases near to the destination planet(s) (Buffalo, Trafalgar, Beaumont, Rochester, Kreuzburg spring to mind). This would allow small-time smuggler RP so that players could introduce this layer of RP that is hopelessly lacking at the moment.
Still the thing is, i come to manhattan loads of cardi on... police says HALT! by then i am allready landed...
Thing is Admins will fine u for doing that?! IF yes thats just uber wrong - police gotta work to stop smuggler's not to camp manhattan docking ring for easy cash. TBH ther is too many fules to the new player's that befor they can offord decent ship they have been fined by admins 10x.. and prolly quit.
Law enforcement and smugglers. - Muleo - 02-28-2009
That sanction fails.
Law enforcement and smugglers. - jammi - 02-28-2009
' Wrote:Still the thing is, i come to manhattan loads of cardi on... police says HALT! by then i am allready landed...Is it really that hard to fly 20K further and head to Rochester? The RP for unloading several thousand tonnes of highly illegal narcotics onto a planet (which light up police scanners like an exploding fireworks factory) -from orbit- stinks.
Thing is Admins will fine u for doing that?! IF yes thats just uber wrong - police gotta work to stop smuggler's not to camp manhattan docking ring for easy cash. TBH ther is too many fules to the new player's that befor they can offord decent ship they have been fined by admins 10x.. and prolly quit.
To be honest, if you were to buy half a cargo hold of Cardimine and half a hold of other goods to RP the fact you've hidden the drugs, fair play to you, but I would almost be willing to place money on the fact you couldn't bear to face the losses and would keep hauling your 5000 units of Cardimine to Manhattan in your shiney Advanced Train.
Suck it up and head to Rochester - a few credits less profit is not going to kill you.
Law enforcement and smugglers. - Muleo - 02-28-2009
The whole appeal of smuggling is the excitement of being chased by the lawfuls. Why else do it? It earns less, and is usually a boring route otherwise.
Law enforcement and smugglers. - Dusty Lens - 02-28-2009
1) A smuggler is being fired upon by lawful officers following their identification of contraband in his hold and his refusal to drop it.
2) Smuggler then proceeds to run, under thrust, to New Berlin.
3) Smuggler then proceeds to dock on New Berlin, having taken advantage of a game mechanic to circumnavigate what would be considered the role play environment.
A. If those RM pilots had been NPCs, the way would have been barred through hostile flagging.
B. Large vessels do not land on the planet, they tether to a mooring point whereafter their goods are moved planetside via shuttle. This interaction would not have taken place with two pilots firing upon him and customs notified of his intent
C. Small vessels that do land on the planet can only access the lower atmosphere through one channel, this channel doubtless now full of planetside law forces waiting to intercept.
This sanction represents an abuse of game mechanics to avoid suffering for a perfectly valid RP interaction. While being fired upon by lawful forces, he docked with -their- base to avoid punishment.
As of the moment that shots are fired it becomes exactly the same as an Outcast landing on Crete, a Corsair landing on Manhattan, a pilot farming Xenos landing on Ouray. All of which would have been causes for outcry.
A game mechanic should be put in place to prevent such things from happening, I agree. When that happens the regulation will no longer be in play. See for example the rule concerning bumping into capships, not an issue next mod when that worry has been corrected.
RP rules exist to re-enforce lacking game mechanics to maintain a realistic game environment that follows roleplay conventions.
This player was sanctioned for performing a quickdock on a hostile base while under pursuit by pilots of the same hostile faction. Now you know not to do it.
Law enforcement and smugglers. - Baltar - 02-28-2009
That sanction is what I would call creative rule lawyering. The term "role play" is quite vague and seems to open to interpretation. To sanction someone for something that's not explicitly forbidden is taking this too far. It seems we're going down a path where, "if we can't find a rule to sanction him ... lets get the catch all rule where we can declare him OORP." That's bunk! How about all those lawful traders (with Trader ID) who dock on on unlawful basees or even Yanagi to avoid being pirated? When will we see an OORP sanction for this? Probably won't.
Lets take a look at reality for a second. Docking rings on planets ... that's a game mechanics issue. In reality, you do NOT need some mechanical docking ring to enter a planet's atmosphere. In reality (and in role play) a pilot can enter a planet's orbit, enter the atmosphere and land on a planet ... and there's absolutely no way that lawfuls can cover every inch of the atmosphere to prevent them from entering the atmosphere. All they could do is detect and track that guy and catch him if he shows up at one of the numerous cities on the surface. But this "game" is not that robust. In this "game" we are limited to a docking ring and a single port to land.
Yes ... a faction can control a "base" such as Fort Bush. But there's no way you can control someone from entering a planet's atmosphere.
This "generic catch-all" rule has the potential for abuse when there's no explicit rule being broken. A Liberty Rogue docking on Manhattan is obviously OORP ... but a Trader or Smuggler? Come on ... you're really stretching the rule here.
EDIT: Lets please not use rules to take the place of role play. If a lawful cannot catch someone before they dock ... its the lawful's problem. Same as when a trader docks to avoid being pirated. If we accept this "vague" rule as being so strict ... we're in trouble ... might as well delete anything that's contraband from the game. I can see the scenario where my smuggler is spotted with Cardamine in Texas ... ordered to stop ... but I'm so far ahead of him that he can't catch me ... I enter New York and dock on Rochester instead of Manhattan to avoid attention ... next thing I know I'm sanctioned because I used the jump gate between Texas and New York. Its coming people ... just wait and see. Here's your loophole for sanctioning a smuggler ... forget even trying to catch the guy ... all you gotta do is utter the word "halt" ... if the smuggler does not comply ... boom ... sanction report.
Law enforcement and smugglers. - Dab - 02-28-2009
On the Alaska/Zone-21 part;
I think thats completely different. Even if you are hostile to Jump Gates, you can still dock them. The same is not true of planets or stations. So you can't be restricted docking of a gate, for they can't be locked anyway. (Unless maybe Ageira can do it somehow.)
Law enforcement and smugglers. - Baltar - 02-28-2009
' Wrote:On the Alaska/Zone-21 part;
I think thats completely different. Even if you are hostile to Jump Gates, you can still dock them. The same is not true of planets or stations. So you can't be restricted docking of a gate, for they can't be locked anyway. (Unless maybe Ageira can do it somehow.)
You've gotta separate planets from stations. The docking ring is a game mechanic to make it possible to land on a planet. Its a flipping game mechanic. When the space shuttle enters Earth's atmosphere ... does it hover outside a docking ring waiting for clearance before entering the atmosphere?
Law enforcement and smugglers. - FraserTE - 02-28-2009
Carry some extra junk with ya so they cant scan immidently fly 15-20k immidently above the planet on the approach so when they do spot ya they will be looking for ya on there level fly straight down hit the morning fixture. just use that tatic works 99.9% of the time ive landed on manhatten with cardi well over 100 times now ive been scanned maybe twice at the last second.
Law enforcement and smugglers. - Derkylos - 02-28-2009
' Wrote:You've gotta separate planets from stations. The docking ring is a game mechanic to make it possible to land on a planet. Its a flipping game mechanic. When the space shuttle enters Earth's atmosphere ... does it hover outside a docking ring waiting for clearance before entering the atmosphere?
Read around a bit about how docking rings work...their existence and purpose is fully explained...