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+--- Thread: Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? (/showthread.php?tid=20235)
Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? - pchwang - 05-08-2009
Well, I see the logic of the Corsairs funding the Xenos completely, but frankly, I do not know if that requires an open alliance over the infocards. An alliance that is stated on the infocards is an official alliance in the open. Just because the Corsairs are not listed, on the Xeno infocard as allied, it does not mean that they cannot aid them.
In a similar situation, the US funded the mujahideen in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion in the 1980s. There was never an open alliance and the US never actually deployed troops or had a significant military presence there. Of course, there were most likely very small military detachments of US personnel there to train the Afghan freedom fighters, but nothing to attract Soviet attention and cause an international catastrophe.
Of course, Discovery is not RL. But the situation is similar enough for me to say that the Corsairs could probably help the Xenos out with monetary funds and weaponry, but would not be willing to openly anger other factions, particularly the Junkers, by allying with the Xenos.
The Corsairs risk too much by allying with the Xenos openly, especially since it could gravely impact their relations with the Junkers, preventing them from docking on Yanagi and Trafalgar, major Corsair layover points. At the same time, an alliance with the Xenos would not provide the Corsairs with much in return. The Xenos are not big or strong enough to pose a serious invasive threat to the Outcasts and their allies. By aiding them, the Corsairs simply make the thorn in the Outcasts' side bigger.
In short the verdict is: A clandestine Corsair operation to fund the Xenos with weapons, gear, and money, so that they may continue to aggravate the Outcasts and their allies, causing them to pour more resources into fighting the Xenos, making them weaker when the Corsairs strike.
Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? - Derkylos - 05-08-2009
' Wrote:Well, I see the logic of the Corsairs funding the Xenos completely, but frankly, I do not know if that requires an open alliance over the infocards. An alliance that is stated on the infocards is an official alliance in the open. Just because the Corsairs are not listed, on the Xeno infocard as allied, it does not mean that they cannot aid them.
In a similar situation, the US funded the mujahideen in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion in the 1980s. There was never an open alliance and the US never actually deployed troops or had a significant military presence there. Of course, there were most likely very small military detachments of US personnel there to train the Afghan freedom fighters, but nothing to attract Soviet attention and cause an international catastrophe.
Of course, Discovery is not RL. But the situation is similar enough for me to say that the Corsairs could probably help the Xenos out with monetary funds and weaponry, but would not be willing to openly anger other factions, particularly the Junkers, by allying with the Xenos.
The Corsairs risk too much by allying with the Xenos openly, especially since it could gravely impact their relations with the Junkers, preventing them from docking on Yanagi and Trafalgar, major Corsair layover points. At the same time, an alliance with the Xenos would not provide the Corsairs with much in return. The Xenos are not big or strong enough to pose a serious invasive threat to the Outcasts and their allies. By aiding them, the Corsairs simply make the thorn in the Outcasts' side bigger.
I don't think the Corsairs are open with their alliance to the Hogosha when in the vicinity of Junker bases, nor are the Order open about their alliance (it's on the infocard...) when a Junker supply ship reaches Toledo...
Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? - jammi - 05-08-2009
I don't like the idea of a Xeno/Corsair alliance. It doesn't sit well with the Xeno's ideals.
What would be interesting however, is if the Rogues went back to their vanilia state of being neutral in the big OC/Sair war then allying with the Xenos in a Bundy/Hessian type relationship (Xeno-political/Rogue-pirateswarm). It would benefit the Rogues because they could then fence goods from both sides and because they're no longer being attacked constantly by Xenos.
But of course, that probably wouldn't work because of Xeno-Cardimine relations and Junker-Rogue relations. But of course, vanilia rumours states the Xenos were trying to muscle in on the Cardimine trade, so who knows? The red-neck guardian angel persona is something the community has developed I suppose.
Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? - Sarawr!? - 05-08-2009
I may not be a Xeno, but the Xenos do not like foreign meaning (Anything non Libertonian) influences on their nation or people, so, think about it, why in the world would they ally with a faction made up of people who are Hispanic?
Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? - bluntpencil2001 - 05-08-2009
' Wrote:I may not be a Xeno, but the Xenos do not like foreign meaning (Anything non Libertonian) influences on their nation or people, so, think about it, why in the world would they ally with a faction made up of people who are Hispanic?Vanilla Xeno rumours hint that they want to muscle in on the Cardamine trade, that being the reason for their war with the Junkers.
However, they may not know exactly where it comes from...
Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? - Dusty Lens - 05-08-2009
To be honest its not an idea completely without merit.
When we first formed the XA it was discussed as a possible means of fitting that particular slot that DA had left for us, namely the faceless group with whom the Xenos were desperately looking to associate themselves.
However, the idea was ultimately dropped as there seemed to be far too many issues working against it. Chief of which were logistical ones, the Xenos would be hard pressed to shift artifacts to sale points given their somewhat pronounced reputation (in the same manner that the Rogues would have some trouble shifting contraband, if not for the help of those delightful middlemen the Junkers) in addition to their sour reputation with the Junkers.
In addition the Xenos would have no means of acquiring artifacts, save for serving as dropoff points for smugglers bringing them in from afield which we would, again, be unable to shift.
Nor would it be in the interests of either party for a cooperation with the Hogosha.
Though its an angel that hasnt been worked to a degree that I find satisfactory, the current relationship between the Xenos and the Order fulfills their pressing need to associate themselves with an organization with the material necessities to give the Xenos a required leg up, in exchange for allowing the Order access to their bases as stopover points.
The Order/Xeno relationship is one which makes a greater amount of sense in the immediate terms than one with the Corsairs. But thats just one mans opinion.
Plus it helps that the Xenos arent hostile to the Order, as opposed to the Corsairs.
Edit:
As a side point Im going to take a half moment to jump on the concept of the Xenos disdain for anything foreign.
The Xenos loath and blame the Kusari/Bretonian and Rheinland nations for stealing their means of employ as Liberty shifted her various production industries to foreign shores to save a few bucks.
Dey terk aur jerbs, in other words.
(derk a der!)
Thats the primary foundation of the Xenos disdain for anyone and anything that washes up from beyond the borderworlds.
There are countless shades of grey within the movement beyond that, as countless as the factions member base Im sure. The argument about cardamine and artifacts is great demonstration of how fractured the organization is in terms of the philosophy that DA provided us with. On one hand the Xenos loath foreign influence domestically, in addition to the pirate elements of Liberty whore looking to plunder their slice of the pie rather than stand up and demand whats theirs, yet at the same time were given rumors that theyre secretely fiending to become the next drug peddlers of the land; fawning to gain the favor of the Outcasts to flood Libertys slums with deadly addictive narcotics in order to buy moar gunz.
Theres a lot of contradictions in there.
So our little group ran with its own philosophy. Damn the poison and damn the idea of risking our necks spending years trying to cut a piece out of the artifact trade in order to supply the elitists who sold out or livelihoods with a few conversation pieces for their ex wives fourth mansion on Denver.
Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? - jdftheman - 05-08-2009
Maybe you haven't noticed, but right now, there is some sort of silent treaty between universal shipping and Xenos. maybe instead of looking so far for allies, making a (for the general public) hidden alliance between universal and Xenos, one where universal provides funding for the Xenos operations, while Xenos are used by universal as sort of dumb muscle to help give universal a stronger position in the inter house trading business.
Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? - jammi - 05-08-2009
That's not an alliance though. Besides, that kind of thing is already going on. There's a reason that Universal is on the don't shoot list of the XA.
EDIT: I just realised the above isn't very helpful... The majority of Libertonian corporations benefit from Xeno attacks, because Libertonian Corps aren't targeted nearly as much as foreign ones. This means the outsiders get higher insurance premiums, which sucks away at their profits.
So all the Libertonians benefit, but only Universal actively supplies the Xenos.
Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? - Dusty Lens - 05-08-2009
' Wrote:Maybe you haven't noticed, but right now, there is some sort of silent treaty between universal shipping and Xenos. maybe instead of looking so far for allies, making a (for the general public) hidden alliance between universal and Xenos, one where universal provides funding for the Xenos operations, while Xenos are used by universal as sort of dumb muscle to help give universal a stronger position in the inter house trading business.
The Universal business is something else which seems, after yet further reflection, to have been placed upon the Xenos in a rather ham fisted manner.
The Xenos, in truth, generally take it a tad easier on domestic commerce as opposed to foreign. Universal shipping in turn (though Ill be darned if I can find the rumors) theoretically lobbies to provide the Xenos with a measure of legistlative procection so theyre not simply shot in the streets when encountered (recall that the Xeno movement is based extremely partially in space. The bulk of their presence is to be found planetside). Whilst maintaining this guise of being good to go Universal happily employs mercenaries operating under assumed Xeno flags to harry the competition to further their own ends.
Like most relationships in Freelancer its an extremely shady one.
There is nothing that I have ever found which suggests that Universal shipping provides the Xenos with direct aid in any form. Nor do the Xenos, prior to our current ID restrictions, give Universal shipping a free pass. Universal is just as quick to ship prison/slave manufactured goods to foreign markets and bring in foreign manufactured goods to feed the consumption machine of Liberty.
Theyre as much the enemy as anyone else in truth. But given that we cant assault them now (despite being blood red to them on our rep sheet), well, yeah.
The XA maintained a relationship with the KOF which was very entertaining. We would refrain from interdicting their vessels in exchange for occasional shipments of necessary goods (engine components and the like), but that had the beauty of being an alliance forged out of player interactions, rather than one imposed (Oh how I hate- universal transports which reply with u cant kill me:Pin system. Ooooh how I hate them).
So thats my additional two cents on that.
Xeno alliance with the Corsairs? - Dusty Lens - 05-08-2009
' Wrote:So all the Libertonians benefit, but only Universal actively supplies the Xenos.
Completely within theory. Unless you have something a bit more tangible handy that supports that? I'm purely asking as I can't recall any such information, not because I'm calling you out. I'm not as keen on non-Xeno born rumors and information beyond a few LPI quotes.