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+--- Thread: Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs (/showthread.php?tid=22635)
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Dab - 07-01-2009
' Wrote:interspace id, strict you to lawfull bases, so for example no supporting corsairs with food for me.:(You can use a Zoner Guard transport to take Food to Crete, since it isn't in the houses.. So this won't affect that at all.
and smuggler id was fine, but when you have pirate train, you can not dock on lawfull base. so again forcing to smaller ship.
as i say, i dont think this whole thing is bad idea, but again
something as favoriting house pilots, because after this, noone except members of house factions can not use 5k cargo ships... and that is not
good in my eyes, when thing as trading is maked on favoritism someone...
(and i type for myself, i really like extra long routes, (from a-to b on my route it is +/- 20 minutes, )
Also, Junker ID Pirate Trains CAN dock on lawful bases.. Switch from Generic to faction. Generic IDs are meant to have drawbacks because they offer so much freedom. The Zoner Guard ID basically is a Generic ID in terms of freedom, but a faction ID in terms of ships it can use.. It has the best of both, and it shouldn't.
Also, this is supposed to encourage you to switch to house factions to trade.. That is one of the problems. Since so many people are using the Zoner Guard ID to trade (including those faction's trade routes), there are few people in those factions. That is making them 'dead' factions. What is so problematic about using a house corp ID if you are running that house corp's trade run? If you're running a Zoner trade run, this won't harm you at all, and thus you have nothing to complain about..
' Wrote:BHG bases should be added to this list. The bhg docks on freeports all the time, why should it be one way?There is nothing of interest on BHG bases for the Zoners.. They are usually outposts for the BHG's combat pilots, not trading hubs. Loads of people dock on Freeports, doesn't mean Zoners should dock theirs. Zoners supply the BHG's borderworld stations, but this ID doesn't prohibit docking of any bases outside the houses, so it won't stop you from doing that.
' Wrote:While I am all up for it , there is a nibbling lil voice in the back of my head thats saying "No! That way all the powetraders will migrate to the Junkers , getting caught all the time , undermining the very essence of beeing a Junker"Now you know exactly how we feel..
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - DragonLancer - 07-01-2009
' Wrote:Those who like to be able to trade anywhere can still use the Trader ID, Smuggler ID, OS&C ID, and Junker ID. Junker ID even allows ships up to 4,300 cargo space. Those who want to be able to trade in any of the houses can still use the Interspace ID which allows up to 4,700 cargo space. But simply put, the Zoner Guard ID offers too much freedom. I enjoy the freedom to do what I want, when I want to, but some things need to be regulated.
Completely agreed.
I got a zoner trader and a repex trader.
I used to ship goods from and to zoner bases only with my zoner trader.
But every time when playing my repex i'm thinking about the fact that i could do the same route with my zoner trader too.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Petersen - 07-01-2009
i have benn a 5k zoner guard ided trader for a very long time now, i see that there might be a bit too many of those flying around nowadays but i dont think your proposal is going to be practicacal on the server. there are too manny exceptions on your proposal that would lead to ingame oorp conversations from people argueing if that zoner transport is alllowed in this region of space and if hes going to dock here or there and in the end the zoner gets sacntioned for docking outside his id restrictions and the other guy gets sanctioned for rule lawyering.
its not the id or the faction that magically creates powertraders, the only reason for powertraders is that they want to buy a certain ship or armor kit and that as fast as possible. you can restrict the zoner guard id as much as you want, the people you are talking about here will just turn on flcompanion and search for the next best thing. and when they find out that there is a four stop very pirate free route for daumann they will go and buy the rheinland supertransport tag it for daumann and do this loop over and over without any rp.
you cant bring people to rp better by creating more id rules and restrictions, it just doesnt work this way.
my first real character after getting started on the server was my spa and cruise luxury liner and i enjoyed it very much to fly around in it and do the big inrp trade route for it that stopped at all the spa and cruise planets and liners around sirius, but at that time that route did not make anything near the money it makes now, thanks to xoria and his helpers for the new inrp trade routes this has changed to the better this version. so back in 4.84 when i wanted to buy me my zoner juggernaut, i just got me an advanced train and did the niob-diamond run over and over until i had the 1.8 billion credits to buy it. when a pirate turned up i simply paid him and was on my way again, very easy thing, i dont see that is ever going to change. if you want something to play with you do anything to get there as fast as possible.
now i have all the money i ever need and i just trade for fun in the luxury liner on the spa and cruise circuit and with the zoner whale i just dock at a place look through the commodities and search for a nice place where i can go and make a little profit and enjoy the ride and see who i might run into on the way without paying too much attention to the actual profit.
so my advice to get rid of the powertraders would be to make all things cost 1 credit, this way only the peeople that actual love their inrp traders and routes are out there trading and everyone else can focus on pew pew totally destroyed you pvp things. and now you think this is ridicoulous, well its the only way you will ever get rid of powertraders.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Stygian - 07-01-2009
I have to agree with SigCorps that this will hamper our RP with OSI a little bit, but I'm all for it.
Edit: Since alien organisms are our main export from Freeport-9, there may need to be some changes to fit that in. Perhaps adding Planetform bases to the list.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - sovereign - 07-01-2009
The only advantage a House Corporate ID offers over the Zoner Guard IDs right now is that you will get more RP at gunpoint from specialized enemies like the LWB, FA, Gaians, etc... and most traders don't consider that an "advantage". The allowance of DSE and Ageira to control Gate/Lane Parts is not significant in any real way, and other than that... there's no reason why not to be Zoner Guard, practically speaking. Of course, if you enjoy the RP of the corporations, you'll pick one of them, but most traders will fit RP to their trading rather than the other way around.
Dab covered the issues with the other possibilities, and as long as the exceptions are kept very clean and clearly written out I think this idea will go a long way in helping. Even if some switch to the Junker ID for the freedom, Junkers can't get 5k transports- so there is a reason for each choice, not just one of them.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - atom - 07-01-2009
In order to protect NPC Factions and player factions, you have to create a balance. If the only way to fly a 5000 cargo transport and be free to trade any where is the Zoner guard ID, then thats what players who want to get enough cash to be able to fly the thip of their dreams will use.therfore it would be better for this problem is there was an ID for indy traders to use. When I first found that the only way to fly the ships I wanted in a hurry was to get the biggest trader and the best trade routes, because I just wanted to see what they were like to fly and be all powerfull in my BS. after trying just about every ship on disco I got fed up with all the power trading and got fed up with a couple of skilled bomber pilots taking me down, it soon became no fun any more and now I just fly fighters an a bomber, I trade with a indy trader ID now and find that I can still keep my ships a float and don't stand out to the pirates as do the 5000 cargo hold pilots, in conclusion new players crave the the thought of flying whatever takes their fancy and the only way to let them get it out of their system is to allow a 5000 indy trader ID, that would let the Faction ID abuse of the hook, human nature is to have what everyone else has so let them have it they will soon get fed up with it, I think, I did. IMHO
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - hack - 07-01-2009
Looks good , big thumbs up.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Benjamin - 07-01-2009
Personally I think the Zoner Guard ID is killing roleplay. If anything, I'd suggest a cargo reduction (followed in line with the zoner whale). I mean, Interspace, IND, independent trader, Junker IDs all got cargosize nerfs expressly because of the trading freedom they have, and they ALL have less freedom than zoners.
This isn't a bad proposal, but I think it might be a pain to actually implement. I mean, they could still go and do it when no one was watching (this is how they land cardamine on manhattan anyway, right?), and it involves a lot of print screening, sanction reporting, etc etc. I don't want everyone to have to be on their toes all the time, constantly suspecting all zoners of breaking the rules. Plus I mean, a lot of these guys, do they even read the ID? You could change it and they wouldn't even know. But if the zoner whale's cargospace dropped, they'd just have to take it in their stride.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Colonel.Tigh - 07-01-2009
Reduce the Zoner Whale to a cargo of 4500, and likewise limit the Zoner Guard ID to ships with up to 4500 Cargo.
That should do the trick just as well, power trading will require one of the big 5000 cargo ships, zoners will not be restricted to any ZOIs, it would be a choise between the bigest ship, and the biggest options of harbours.
4500 cargo, like the Large Train is still "effective" enough for Traiding for money, but most "PowerTraders" will not settle for it.
A 4500 Zoner Whale will be a great ship for people who either want to play a real Zoner-Trader, or just want to trade in the Edgeworlds, but it wont be spammed like it is now.
(and keep the price as it is now, right now its too cheap)
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Dab - 07-01-2009
' Wrote:i have benn a 5k zoner guard ided trader for a very long time now, i see that there might be a bit too many of those flying around nowadays but i dont think your proposal is going to be practicacal on the server. there are too manny exceptions on your proposal that would lead to ingame oorp conversations from people argueing if that zoner transport is alllowed in this region of space and if hes going to dock here or there and in the end the zoner gets sacntioned for docking outside his id restrictions and the other guy gets sanctioned for rule lawyering.Considering those exceptions are very clear, I don't see how any argument can come about because of it. If it's not IMG, GMG, Zoner, or Council, and your not carrying a load of Refugees, a Zoner can't dock there. If it is any of those 4 stations, you can.
' Wrote:its not the id or the faction that magically creates powertraders, the only reason for powertraders is that they want to buy a certain ship or armor kit and that as fast as possible. you can restrict the zoner guard id as much as you want, the people you are talking about here will just turn on flcompanion and search for the next best thing. and when they find out that there is a four stop very pirate free route for daumann they will go and buy the rheinland supertransport tag it for daumann and do this loop over and over without any rp.Yes, many will go to FLCompanion. However, those people will find that the house faction routes all make similar money, and all have similar levels of pirates. Pirates go where the players are, so if a ton of transports are running a route, the pirates will go there. They aren't static. I doubt that all of the ZGuard traders will go the same way. Many will go Junker for the continued freedom, many will go corporation for the 5k transports. Those that go Corp aren't likely to all be the exact same corp. Especially after pirates start preying on the mass of them running the same route. It might get spammy at first, but they'll disperse eventually. What makes this likely is that there are few 2-stop routes. They are circuits now, so there is no 'best corp' with the 'best route.'
you cant bring people to rp better by creating more id rules and restrictions, it just doesnt work this way.
' Wrote:my first real character after getting started on the server was my spa and cruise luxury liner and i enjoyed it very much to fly around in it and do the big inrp trade route for it that stopped at all the spa and cruise planets and liners around sirius, but at that time that route did not make anything near the money it makes now, thanks to xoria and his helpers for the new inrp trade routes this has changed to the better this version. so back in 4.84 when i wanted to buy me my zoner juggernaut, i just got me an advanced train and did the niob-diamond run over and over until i had the 1.8 billion credits to buy it. when a pirate turned up i simply paid him and was on my way again, very easy thing, i dont see that is ever going to change. if you want something to play with you do anything to get there as fast as possible.Not everyone makes a trader to role play it unfortunately. I don't doubt people will still do what they can to get as much in as little time as possible. I expect it, and that's normal trader attitude, even for those that do RP. However, it'll still be more RP for them and others to be corp tagged than see 10 Zoner Guard transports of every make and model for every one corp trader.
' Wrote:so my advice to get rid of the powertraders would be to make all things cost 1 credit, this way only the peeople that actual love their inrp traders and routes are out there trading and everyone else can focus on pew pew totally destroyed you pvp things. and now you think this is ridicoulous, well its the only way you will ever get rid of powertraders.Even with people who want to RP traders, if everything is 1 credit than there won't be any traders. People still need a goal; To make money. If everything cost 1 credit, we'd have giant battleship squads roaming around. Pirates would disappear, as there is no point in pirating any longer. They'd say 'give me this amount of money,' the trader would, then they'd separate. It'd destroy RP and turn this into an RP server. Do you really think anyone will fly a VHF if every one of their enemies is a battleship with Cap VIII armor? They can't hurt them.. So they'll get a BS too. Soon enough everyone is in a BS, and whatever side has more BSs wins.. And then the community is destroyed because who wants to play a game like that where there is no purpose?