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Adressed to the Council of Zoners - Printable Version +- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums) +-- Forum: Role-Playing (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9) +--- Forum: Communication Channel (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=59) +--- Thread: Adressed to the Council of Zoners (/showthread.php?tid=25465) |
Adressed to the Council of Zoners - SigCorps - 09-07-2009 **Incoming Transmission** **Decryption Process initiating** **Clear text reads** To: Regards, Harrison McRemitz The secretary of state for foreign affair From: Samuel Nichols, CEO Omicron Supply Industries, Representative of the Council of Zoners Message reads: Mr. Harrison, We very well know that our neutrality comes at a price and sometimes it is a double edge sword. We currently have several situation on the table before us, some of which deal with this same issue that you have brought forth. Also being who we are, not all Zoners follow the advice of the council and do as they please, which is their prerogative. That individuality is what makes enforcing our NFZ policies difficult at times. As for piracy against Zoners, amazingly enough it is not as bad in other regions of Sirius. I personally have only been hit up for donations maybe 5 times in my career. Most of those were reasonable request too. I will admit that I do not come into Liberty space, although most of my employees do. Piracy is something you take with being a merchant or transport pilot. It's a fact of life. Now Mr. Holiday travels more in Liberty then either myself or my employees do, so maybe the piracy situation is worse in Liberty then in other areas of Sirius. Very soon Zoners will be making an announcement. We will be proclaiming, in writing, what our policies are. Now we will be asking each house to ratify this document. If the Liberty government were to be the one of the first to do this, we would be inclined to bend a rule or two. We feel that if Liberty ratifies these policies that others would surely follow. Sincerely Samuel Nichols CEO - OSI Council of Zoner representative Member of the SHIZL **End of Transmission* Adressed to the Council of Zoners - Sonja - 09-07-2009 If the policies you propose will aid us in the problems that we face, then I wont have any problem asking for signatures from various authoritative figures in Liberty, and will be happy to add my own. However, of course they will need to be read and understood by us, which will take yet more time. Any concerns that we may have would be put to you here on this channel, and these would have to be addressed before we sign on the dotted line. Please send a copy of your policies once they are released directly to my office through this channel. Please release the document as fast as possible, as I'd like to get busy working out the intricacies of your procedures myself. I look forward to recieving future correspondance from you, mister Nichols. Regards, Harrison McRemitz The secretary of state for foreign affairs. Adressed to the Council of Zoners - SigCorps - 09-08-2009 **Incoming Transmission** **Decryption Process initiating** **Clear text reads** To: Regards, Harrison McRemitz The secretary of state for foreign affair From: Samuel Nichols, CEO Omicron Supply Industries, Representative of the Council of Zoners Message reads: Mr. Harrison, I will be happy to do that. I understand wanting to read them over before agreeing to anything and would want to do so myself. I hope to have them to you in the next few days. They are currently going through our voting process in the Council. Sincerely Samuel Nichols CEO - OSI Council of Zoner representative Member of the SHIZL **End of Transmission* Adressed to the Council of Zoners - SigCorps - 09-10-2009 **Incoming Transmission** **Decryption Process initiating** **Clear text reads** To: Regards, Harrison McRemitz The secretary of state for foreign affair From: Samuel Nichols, CEO Omicron Supply Industries, Representative of the Council of Zoners Message reads: Mr. Harrison, As requested here is a copy of the Zoner Official Policies. I await your response Quote:Official Zoner Policies Sincerely Samuel Nichols CEO - OSI Council of Zoner representative Member of the SHIZL **End of Transmission* Adressed to the Council of Zoners - Sonja - 09-10-2009 I see. As I understand the policies put forward here, I can add my signature to sections I, II and IV, but not III. I am required to request concessions of the following nature: - A term explicitly prohibiting people basing off Freeports bordering house space for the purposes of committing an act or multiple acts of piracy and terrorism. Currently, this is implied but not specifically stated. - A clause stating that Liberty law enforcement have the right, in Zoner-owned Freeport no-fire-zones bordering Liberty space, to proactively arrest violent criminals who loiter in no-fire zones and refuse to dock. Damage to installations around Sirius belonging to each faction, regardless of their colour or stripe, is a fact of life. As I recall, it is only the Zoners that are so fiercely protective of their facilities to impose such limiting regulations to their use. I think its time that you made a small exception, as those violent criminals whom our law enforcement will be chasing have likely attempted to murder civilian and military personnel alike. In my humble opinion, murder is a far more important crime to punish than slight damage to property. I also cannot accept the following part of section III. Quote:Vessels fleeing into the NFZ are subject to the Space Rules imposed on all vessels by the Authorized Department of Movement and Interstellar Networking of Sirius (//ADMINS and Server Rules) and are considered as fleeing from combat and docking. The fleeing vessel must dock at the station or planet immediately, and remain docked for no less than 4 hours (//As per Server Rules 5.6 - 5.9). The reason is that this part of the document interprets the interstellar rules of engagement to its advantage and not in the spirit that those rules were meant. This will have to be removed for my signature to find its way on to the entirety of your document. I hope this meets with your approval. Regards, Harrison McRemitz The secretary of state for foreign affairs. Adressed to the Council of Zoners - SigCorps - 09-10-2009 **Incoming Transmission** **Decryption Process initiating** **Clear text reads** To: Mr. Harrison McRemitz The secretary of state for foreign affair From: Samuel Nichols, CEO Omicron Supply Industries, Representative of the Council of Zoners Message reads: Mr. Harrison, We are looking over the ideas you proposed. Although I can think state a few of the things we are willing to compromise on and what those compromises are. Quote:- A term explicitly prohibiting people basing off Freeports bordering house space for the purposes of committing an act or multiple acts of piracy and terrorism. Currently, this is implied but not specifically stated. I am actually surprised this got missed since we have already stated this before. I am sure it will be amended. We do not allow any faction to use our Freeports for a base to attack any other faction. As for fleeing into the NFZ. If the Liberty lawful faction ( I think in this case we are referring to the Liberty Navy and Liberty Security Force) can provide rock solid proof that their quarry was engaged outside the NFZ and then fled into the NFZ (which is also against policy) we would overlook said trespass. We would need unedited pictorial proof of said situation. A picture of the engagement outside the NFZ and a picture that shows the subject fled into the NFZ. Now only the LN and LSF would get this compromise, as the LPI would be way out of their jurisdiction. Loiterers will continue to be handled by Zoners. Now proof that a someone was loitering would be appreciative and would allow us to deal with transgressors. While we do realize that installations will sustain damage during their life span, we choose to try to limit that as much as possible. Usually no life is harmed if no objects are damaged or destroyed. This is the benchmark for Zoners of how to ensure the security of people. Sincerely Samuel Nichols CEO - OSI Council of Zoner representative Member of the SHIZL **End of Transmission* Adressed to the Council of Zoners - Sonja - 09-10-2009 I read through your previous transmission twice and was quite disappointed to see no compromises, only an admission of 'something missed' in the first writeup of your laws and a restatement of your official policies. Quote:As for fleeing into the NFZ. If the Liberty lawful faction ( I think in this case we are referring to the Liberty Navy and Liberty Security Force) can provide rock solid proof that their quarry was engaged outside the NFZ and then fled into the NFZ (which is also against policy) we would overlook said trespass. We would need unedited pictorial proof of said situation. A picture of the engagement outside the NFZ and a picture that shows the subject fled into the NFZ. Now only the LN and LSF would get this compromise, as the LPI would be way out of their jurisdiction. Your first assumption about our lawful forces is correct. This would apply to the Liberty Security Force and the Liberty Navy, but not the Liberty Police Incorporated. What you stated reads as already well-established Zoner policy, something which is currently not in our interest to endorse due to its potentially protective nature of dangerous criminals and terrorists. We are all aware of Zoner neutrality, but we are still adamant that our law enforcement should be able to carry out their duties unhindered, even in Zoner no-fire-zones. I have been told that, in a chase situation, it often slips the mind to gather evidence as an inspector rather than continue to defend yourself or apprehend the suspect by force. It is also far more convenient for us to capture a criminal in one try, rather than letting him go due to beaurocratic red tape which gives him free liscence to reoffend. Criminals can often be hard to track down, and even harder to capture. We can't afford to let these people go after they are seen because of the aforementioned red tape. We would be prepared however, to provide evidence of the unlawful acts of the suspect within our borders if the Council of Zoners were to recieve a complaint from that individual. What Liberty asks for is the trust of the Zoners to enforce our laws, most of them common throughout the houses, in the space of the independant worlds. Since this is independant and unowned space, we should be able to do so anyway. Asking for the Zoners' permission to do so is meant to be a formality rather than a lengthy and tiring discussion. It should also be taken into account that the violent criminals that our policy would target are usually the ones directly or indirectly responsible for most damage to your installations, as they usually have little regard for any form of law, both ours and yours. We would also only be arresting them if they refused to dock, as we would not board your stations to conduct such business. We do not contend the neutrality within your bases, but in the space around those bases. Your ownership of that space is self-imposed and is only recognised because of the generous element within our government. Apart from our generosity, we have no incentive to respect that ownership, but we currently do anyway. Quote:Loiterers will continue to be handled by Zoners. Now proof that a someone was loitering would be appreciative and would allow us to deal with transgressors. It would be far more efficient if those loiterers were dealt with on the spot by trained officers of the navy and the security force rather than an assorted array of poorly trained and disciplined volunteers. However, the most important concern that I have is that Zoner presence is concentrated away from the independant worlds and more towards the edge worlds and border worlds. This means sporadic and unreliable coverage of your bases by yourselves in Kepler and Bering, which results in windows for criminals to escape being opened. Even our forces cannot maintain 24 hour coverage of every lane and base in Liberty, so I doubt you could achieve the same with your Freeport network. This is why we need to deal with these threats at a time and place that suits us. Quote:While we do realize that installations will sustain damage during their life span, we choose to try to limit that as much as possible. Usually no life is harmed if no objects are damaged or destroyed. This is the benchmark for Zoners of how to ensure the security of people. But whose people? It seems that this policy in theory extends to everyone equally, but it is more often than not used by fleeing and violent criminals to prolong their time in this life. My concern and the concern of our forces is the protection of the innocent and defenseless, not the agressors and murderers that they hunt down. I will put it in more simple terms. Either make compromises to your laws that the Liberty Navy and the Liberty Security Force can enforce themselves, or stay with your currently unworkable laws that lets criminals get away with breaking them. In the case of the latter, I will have a hard time convincing the leadership of the Liberty forces to continue to respect those laws. Our forces must have leave to do their job. I hope you consider this, mister Nichols. Regards, Harrison McRemitz The secretary of state for foreign affairs. Adressed to the Council of Zoners - SigCorps - 09-11-2009 **Incoming Transmission** **Decryption Process initiating** **Clear text reads** To: Harrison McRemitz The secretary of state for foreign affair From: Samuel Nichols, CEO Omicron Supply Industries, Representative of the Council of Zoners Message reads: Mr. McRemits Now we are at a potential impasse. You do not seem to realize that this is a negotiation. You make a request, we counter, and we go back and forth till we both get a little of what we want. Now we started with no one being able to violate our policies, we made a concession to allow your lawful forces to do so if they provided proof. Now if your forces can not be bothered with actually gathering proof before making arrests or even killing a "criminal" I feel very sorry for Lady Justice in Liberty. Yes I admitted an wording error on our part about anyone staging attacks on anyone else from our stations. Your comment pointed out to us that it was not clear enough. It is being fixed. Yet you throw that in our face and accuse us of not budging. Yet you have refused to change your stance at all. Now the main areas of space we are talking about are outside Liberty. Truthfully it is no ones territory and there are no laws in that region. We have rules that folks must abide if they want to use our stations. If they do not, then they are asked to leave, forcefully if necessary, and black listed from that freeport. If their violation is bad enough they will be forbidden from the use of any Zoner installation. You want to be able to violate those rules, freely with no proof of wrong doing, in an area of space that is not yours. Space where your laws do not hold sway. You ask for trust but give none in return and threaten our very existence in these systems. Is this how the Liberty government works? With threats? You want to be able to carry out your duties in a system where your laws mean nothing. Outside your sovereign space. If you truly believe that all the criminals of Liberty are based out of Ames and Freeport 2 then you have more issues then just our little 5k around our stations. Why would criminals run to our stations when they can go to their own? If we allow you to violate our No Fire Zone when you wish, then we would have to allow everyone to do so. That is not acceptable. You want to police the independent systems when you have enough issues within your own house. To give you free reign in the NFZ would open too many problems and threaten our very existence through out Sirius. Quote:What you stated reads as already well-established Zoner policy, something which is currently not in our interest to endorse due to its potentially protective nature of dangerous criminals and terrorists. We are all aware of Zoner neutrality, but we are still adamant that our law enforcement should be able to carry out their duties unhindered, even in Zoner no-fire-zones. What I offered Liberty has never been offered before to anyone. It is not well established policy. Allowing someone to violate our NFZ and not get banned from the station has never been allowed. Even with proof of another violation. Why all the sudden has Liberty felt injured by a stand that the Zoners have had for well over several years. Now you claim your forces must have leave to do their jobs, well we also have interests to protect. Mainly our very lives. Quote:Your ownership of that space is self-imposed and is only recognized because of the generous element within our government. Apart from our generosity, we have no incentive to respect that ownership, but we currently do anyway. Once again you make threats. You want us to compromise one of our most valued morals and yet offer of equal value. Once again we offer that if the pursuing ship can show evidence that the "criminal" fled into our NFZ, they will be able to continue pursuit and use force. Now if Liberty has knowledge and proof that there are certain elements staging from our stations, provide proof and we will eject them. Now in return we would like Liberty to ratify our policies and recognize that Zoners have sovereign claim over their stations and the 5k around them. Now we can either get back to a give and take situation, or we continue to toss around bravado and get no where. Sincerely Samuel Nichols CEO-OSI Council of Zoners representative Adressed to the Council of Zoners - Sonja - 09-11-2009 Quote:Once again we offer that if the pursuing ship can show evidence that the "criminal" fled into our NFZ, they will be able to continue pursuit and use force. Now if Liberty has knowledge and proof that there are certain elements staging from our stations, provide proof and we will eject them. What possible proof could Liberty pilots show in-chase, whilst approaching a freeport, that the person they are chasing has comitted a crime? It requires time to download any ship computer, and that has to be done outside of flight. Picture evidence of this kind allows the transgressor to get away. Maybe it lets that criminal get away just once, but in many cases, getting away just once means more lives lost within our borders. I cannot compromise on an issue that could endanger any number of citizens in Liberty. Besides, you imply that the word of an officer of the law is not good enough, and I would vehemently disagree. Quote:Now we are at a potential impasse. You do not seem to realize that this is a negotiation. You make a request, we counter, and we go back and forth till we both get a little of what we want. Now we started with no one being able to violate our policies, we made a concession to allow your lawful forces to do so if they provided proof. Now if your forces can not be bothered with actually gathering proof before making arrests or even killing a "criminal" I feel very sorry for Lady Justice in Liberty. In reality, that is not a concession. Without this 'concession', I understand that we would provide evidence as we gathered it, and you would keep them away from the Freeports, destroying their ship if they tried to use your facilities. With this 'concession', I understand that instead of you doing the destroying, our forces would. But the order of progression is wrong. What I have been told to gain is the consent of the Zoners for our forces to chase those ships, destroy them, and then provide evidence afterwards of the crime they have comitted. Such a 'concession', as you described it, only puts Liberty pilot's lives at risk for no potential gain in the areas where we are actually interested in. That is, the sacrifice of our pilots to stop violent criminals from reoffending. I hope you understand what I am aiming for, and I will not settle for anything less. Quote:Yes I admitted an wording error on our part about anyone staging attacks on anyone else from our stations. Your comment pointed out to us that it was not clear enough. It is being fixed. Yet you throw that in our face and accuse us of not budging. Yet you have refused to change your stance at all. I did nothing of the sort. As I said earlier, I saw that you had admitted that something was missed. As it was phrased in such a way that made it sound as if it were a mistake in the document before the discussion about it began, I assumed that you had always meant what I has asked for and that concluded that, since you did mean what I pointed out anyway, that you werent budging on that particular point. Was I mistaken? Quote:Now the main areas of space we are talking about are outside Liberty. Truthfully it is no ones territory and there are no laws in that region. We have rules that folks must abide if they want to use our stations. If they do not, then they are asked to leave, forcefully if necessary, and black listed from that freeport. If their violation is bad enough they will be forbidden from the use of any Zoner installation. You are completely correct. There are no laws in the independant worlds region of space. Something that I may recommend the Liberty Navy to look at changing in the future. I see a problem, however. You say you have laws that folks must abide by if they want to use your stations. Thats fair enough. But the Liberty forces rarely, if ever, use your stations. Going down a purely hypothetical path, what reason would the Liberty forces have to obey your laws in this case? Armed retalition? The accusation that we want to violate those rules of yours freely without proof is, however, mistaken. We will provide proof if the enquiries are made by your council, and will give proper apology and proof of the reprimand of the officers involved if that evidence is unavailable for any reason. I would contend the notion that our laws hold no sway in the independant worlds. They hold as much sway as there are naval and security force patrols in those areas, and of course, the frequency of those patrols are subject to change. The Liberty government works in such a way that gives me full authority in dealings with groups that show intent to harbour known criminals a scant one jump away from house space. I'd like to think of the statements I make as more of a warning and less of a threat. That said, they can both overlap somewhat. Quote:If you truly believe that all the criminals of Liberty are based out of Ames and Freeport 2 then you have more issues then just our little 5k around our stations. Why would criminals run to our stations when they can go to their own? This discussion is not about what I truely believe, mister Nichols. I am simply here to make sure that Liberty's interests are served by any deal that results from these negotiations. Liberty's interests are very far-ranging, as you can imagine. Quote:If we allow you to violate our No Fire Zone when you wish, then we would have to allow everyone to do so. That is not acceptable. You want to police the independent systems when you have enough issues within your own house. To give you free reign in the NFZ would open too many problems and threaten our very existence through out Sirius. That, Sam, is your problem. Regards, Harrison McRemitz The secretary of state for foreign affairs. PS: I might add that, as I have an objective which I will not go away having failed to achieve, I did come to the table with benefits that would be administered to the Zoners that you have already labelled as being unimportant. What then, would you like from us? Adressed to the Council of Zoners - SigCorps - 09-11-2009 **Incoming Transmission** **Decryption Process initiating** **Clear text reads** To: Harrison McRemitz The secretary of state for foreign affair From: Samuel Nichols, CEO Omicron Supply Industries, Representative of the Council of Zoners Message reads: Mr. McRemits Quote:Once again we offer that if the pursuing ship can show evidence that the "criminal" fled into our NFZ, they will be able to continue pursuit and use force. Now if Liberty has knowledge and proof that there are certain elements staging from our stations, provide proof and we will eject them. Now in return we would like Liberty to ratify our policies and recognize that Zoners have sovereign claim over their stations and the 5k around them. Now we can either get back to a give and take situation, or we continue to toss around bravado and get no where. This is all we ask. We do not want relief from the embargo. That has too many potential problems. Moving capital sized vessels through your house territory would always be after we asked permission. Our gunship is, in reality, a heavily armed freighter. Our Cruiser an exploration vessel. The only real combat capital ships we have are our Destroyer, Battle cruiser and Juggernaut. If we were to be moving ships of this size through your house we would always ask permission first. I do want Liberty and the Zoners to have a good working relationship. While our neutrality is our problem as you put it, it is still the core issue here. You continue to issue veiled threats to us. Quote:There are no laws in the independent worlds region of space. Something that I may recommend the Liberty Navy to look at changing in the future. Quote:I would contend the notion that our laws hold no sway in the independent worlds. They hold as much sway as there are naval and security force patrols in those areas, and of course, the frequency of those patrols are subject to change. How else would we interpret these two statements, but as you will move armed forces into Kepler and Bering, if we do not comply. I understand that you need to do what you need to, as do we. Lets get down to some nuts and bolts. the real sticking point here seems to be the proof we require. I am not saying we want a 50 page report with 8 by 10 high definition pictures. We want two. One picture that proves they were chasing said fugitive outside our NFZ and a second one showing them inside our NFZ. If your chasing someone, we do assume that they have done wrong by Liberty and will take that for granted. We do not need proof of their crimes. As I have stated before it is also our policy that the NFZ is not for escaping ones enemies. Violators are blacklisted. We do not want trouble dragged to our doorstep. Now if you want to suggest to someone that they move along while in our NFZ, without force, that is acceptable. We do not like folks just loitering about in the NFZ. Coming into the NFZ to apprehend someone, well I am sure that your people would already have proof of that specific person's crime already. If that proof was provided in a quick report to us, then I am sure we would satisfied with that. Honestly how many times do either of these situations really come up. Now if there are suspicions of a group operating out of one of our Freeports then by all means let us know and we will eject them. The proof provided, though, must not leave any doubt in any of these instances. Now, we live in two different realities, You have black and white and we see things more as shades of gray. This does put us at slight odds. Our situation is unique, neutrality is a necessity, if we disavow a faction then we are at potential issue with many others. We do not condone the taking of life needlessly, we do understand your position, we ask that you understand ours. I await your response. Sincerely Samuel Nichols CEO-OSI Council of Zoners representative ** End of Transmission** |