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+--- Thread: Order Gunship (/showthread.php?tid=26587)
Order Gunship - NonSequitor - 09-15-2009
The Hathor is a clay pigeon to the bomber's shotgun (SNAC). I haven't flown one yet on this mod, but from what I've seen in combat situations, if you don't have at least one missile turret on it, you're doomed. And even that doesn't help for long.
I have flown the Hathor on Discovering Discovery and it has all the agility of a dirt clod. I can only imagine the difficulty it would have trying to keep a bead on a bomber.
Now does the Order need a separate gunship model? In essence a gunboat lite? In my opinion, no.
The Order is a small organization with limited funding and resources. I would imagine that their R and D program would find it more feasible to fine tune the relatively new gunboat they already have, rather than run off willy-nilly run and invest time and resources into a completely new vessel type.
All the Hathor needs is a bit more overall agility. But the topside profile should remain unchanged in the name of balance.
Order Gunship - tansytansey - 09-15-2009
' Wrote:The Hathor is a clay pigeon to the bomber's shotgun (SNAC). I haven't flown one yet on this mod, but from what I've seen in combat situations, if you don't have at least one missile turret on it, you're doomed. And even that doesn't help for long.
Actually... when I soloed a Hathor with my Orchid, they did more damage to me with turrets than missiles. With missiles, I barely got a scratch on my hull, without I was on fire by the time they were dead, it was a very close fight.
Hathor is a heavier Gunboat, you can't really compare it to light Gunboats like the BHG Gunship or the Rogue Battlebarge. It's more like the Outcast Gunship.
Order Gunship - Tenacity - 09-15-2009
too many people try to say whether something is 'balanced' or not based on how it fares in 1v1 combat. That doesnt work, guys. Try taking the Hathor into the order vs bhg events, you'll be the first ship to die, before even the cruisers/battleships.
It's a supernova magnet, and in fleet engagements it doesnt have the ability to kill anyone or anything before it gets destroyed. That tells me it needs changing.
Order Gunship - reavengitair - 09-15-2009
I would actually vote we scratch the current model - and replace it with a gunship.
Order Gunship - Robert.Fitzgerald - 09-15-2009
Many gunboats die in fleet engagements simply because they are targetted with overwhelming force and destroyed. The corsair gunboat is big and can be easy to hit sometimes, so should it be morphed into a fast gunboat? The Bretonian gunboat is gigantic - should it be shrunk and turned into a fast gunboat?
Use what you have already, learn new techniques to counter perceived weaknesses and / or make use of the ship outside of fleet engagements (where most of the time large ships have a weakness due to their size).
Order Gunship - NonSequitor - 09-15-2009
Really guys, the current model has excellent potential. It just needs its agility/turning tuned up a notch or two.
You can't have everything - where would you put it?
I don't really think you guys want a gunship. I have flown the BH gunship extensively and I found it disappointing. Sure, it's harder to hit but it has little to throw back at the opponent. And 2 to 3 bombers will normally be enough to take it out of its misery - even with more inherent agility and turning speed.
You'll end up getting a somewhat spiffed-up version of the Zoner gunboat.
Order Gunship - Jinx - 09-15-2009
why does the hathor not look like the other order ships?
- cause its basicly produced / developed by zoners and not the order
does the order need / require a light gunboat?
- no, they don t
- if they want to have a FAST one, they can pick the conference, which is the fastest gunboat in the entire game, - more nimble than even the BHG GS
why do gunboats die in mass group battles?
- cause they tend to be targetted first. - they are dangerous for bombers, yet the combined firepower of support vessels ( destroyers and larger ships ) and bombers / VHF can "rather" easily hit them.
why i am against replacing it.. :
- it has a perfect hitbox ( in contrast to the zoner conference for example, which has a resized rhino hitbox making it larger than it actually is )
- its look is really good enough. - it has a distinct feel about it - and while its different than the conference, one can clearly see the similarities
- it is the perfect opposite to the zoner gunboat. - the zoner GB has the minimum turret number, the hathor, the maximum. the conference is the most nimble gunboat, the hathor somewhat the least ( or among the lesser ones ), with 120k hitpoints its definitely on the upper scale of protection of gunboats.
it is a perfect heavy gunboat. - it has the SAME amount of problems that for example the BHG GS has. - but the BHG GS is troubled by a lack of energy for its weapons and a severe lack of choice of weapons / firepower. - the hathos is troubled by a lack of ability to dodge but has twice the amount of weapons AND can fire them. - 600k energy compared to 400k energy is a lot. 30% more energy to play around with.
i do understand that one wishes to have "everything" - but if every faction asked for everything that is possible, - it would be pretty nasty on disco.
order ships are often more on the heavier, larger side. - the nephtys, the sekhmet, the carrier, the gunboat - even the recon cruiser is large for its use. ( the osiris is small and all, but its a design the order wasn t involved in at all )
so from me, its a definite "no" to change the model / concept AND / OR to add another one.
Order Gunship - globalplayer-svk - 09-15-2009
Rename this mod to caplancer....
All will caps and in the same time the same people are crying that caps are useless against bombers...logic????
Order Gunship - ophidian - 09-15-2009
Bombers are overwhelming in this mod, its not the caps that are weak:)- true bombers are probably Sekhmet type craft. /end of possible flame start
I don't think we need a new Gunboat as Order, we need new approach to its use. Hathors shall be used as anti cap support craft with their razors and all that. It has a point in use.
What Order suck (actually it is normal, its the other craft that sux in means of overpowered) is the small craft, especially the bombers.
Now, its best to be objective, we all love our factions and cannot stand anything that opposes it, we have 127321731723 examples posted around these forums.
However;
- Bombers and VHFs shall have specific roles. Order Bombers and VHFs are greatly designed and fitting to this role perfectly. Other faction crafts... like the Nommie bomber or BHG bomber are way too agile to be a bomber, removing the necessity of a VHF as well as ensuring a possible dogfight wing against an Order craft.
It is why people in Order are more and more into capital ships. If you cannot kill anything with a Bastet or Nephy or Sekhmet before becoming an epic hotshot, its pointless to play. It gets out of being fun and turns into a military academy.
Sincerely, I think Order has the best BS if used correctly and a very good upper class design of ships. The lower class design (smaller) is also perfect and what it should be in means of Bomber / VHF balance.
Its the OTHER FACTIONAL SHIPS that need degrading. Especially the bombers who are like tanks with F-16 agility.
Order Gunship - Turkish - 09-15-2009
To be perfectly frank Jinx, we should replace the model on quality grounds alone. Having looked over the mesh its painfully inefficient.
Its beautiful in many ways, and has a distinct feeling to it. But it also suffers from dozens of hidden polygons, vertices, and a few other things that bring the final count to almost 8,000 polygons. None of the polygons I've mentioned are textured.
There are several ways to optimize the model though, so a remodel would likely be all thats needed. And with that the hitbox could be kept.