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+---- Thread: Fighters should be fun... (/showthread.php?tid=5119)
Fighters should be fun... - Koolmo - 12-23-2007
Indeed, it's a pissy way of doing things. Of course, the real loser would be the guy that went and got a catheter, so he'd never lose...
Fighters should be fun... - bluntpencil2001 - 12-23-2007
' Wrote:Indeed, it's a pissy way of doing things. Of course, the real loser would be the guy that went and got a catheter, so he'd never lose...
You've no idea how tempted I was to use an empty two litre ginger ale bottle that was sitting on my desk when I was fighting KNF in my Hussar...
For the record, I didn't. I kamikazed the Kusari instead. But still... it hurt.
Fighters should be fun... - Rogue63 - 12-23-2007
I like things as they are. Yes I have been in battles that seem to last forever, but most for me last maybe 10 mins or less. There is a flip side to this discussion, if fighters are made more frail think about it. There are alot of cap ships out there now, you go buzzing by that gunboat or cruiser and in a span of a few seconds your fighter is scattered to the heavens. Personally I think more people would flock to bigger ships if that was the case, being able to regen once or twice is not a bad thing. I have been in a very long battle where both parties called it a draw and went our separate ways. I would rather do this than fly a "tinfoil" armoured fighter. Getting blown up in a few seconds is worse than a long fight, and frustrating. Be careful for what you wish for.
Fighters should be fun... - bluntpencil2001 - 12-23-2007
Well, if fighter armour was weakened, other things would be changed too, obviously. Every ship in the game would need rebalanced, unfortunately.
Fighters should be fun... - Epholl - 12-23-2007
I remember fights of Doom(BSG) vs Hydra(Bushido) lasted veeery long... They fought, fought, fought, then a NPC exploded near them, one of them tractored the bots and the fight continued.....
Fighters should be fun... - Jinx - 12-23-2007
must be all the good dodging skills - which is a good thing and a bad thing as it appears. take the average player - even a one vs. one - a fight won t take hours, cause people just don t know how to avoid taking damage that much.
however, cutting the nano supply won t affect the casual player much. so there is hardly a bad side. what i experienced was that ... indeed - the larger the ship you fly, the faster its going down. ( provided you are fighting against an appropriate force of course )
so when i was fighting against 2 scorpion wild GBs ( + a few nomad NPCs ) there was of course allmost no chance to dodge with a zoner juggernaut, so i took all the damage of course. had i been in a light fighter - i guess even i could have stayed for a much longer time than in the battleship - of course not doing any damage. but that way, i had to dock out at one point.
its hard to balance bats bots - you can either try to make it equal for every ship - fighter up to battleship ( currently fighter = 3 times, battleship = 75% repair ) or pay a lot of time to individually customize it.
right now, i am flying the kiith somtaav SHF for two reasons. i can fly it as some sort of minibomber ( can shoot the supernova ), it might not be agile enough to avoid fighters, but it is agile enough so that ... when i don t want it - a battleship would never take me down. on top of that - a bomber has 105 bats/bots maybe - the SHF has 340 - meaning that as a rookie pilot i can make countless mistakes, and heal up for half a dozen times - shields and hull if i like.
my feeling is that ( and i am paying no thought on capship whoring at that time ) : fighters up to VHF should heal up once fully - and once half. SHF maybe 2 times fully - or just like VHF 1.5 times. ( bombers aswell )
but capital ships should repair up 1.5 times aswell - when they face an appropriate force ( and i m not meaning the single, brave but funny single bomberace that might have the skills but its a bit of a strange thing ) they go down quickly.
thats a whole big balance issue that can be started when it comes to bats and bots - and i m not sure if we have the proper overview of how it will affect the gameplay. right now, for casual pilots, it feels OK - but that might only be cause we are used to it. - other servers have no bats/bots sometimes - which is too extreme, imo ( cause those servers mostly don t have those strict re-engagement rules ) - we have a 4 hours ban and a shady re-engagement rule....we must have room to make up for mistakes while we fight.
so i m not saying yes or no to that proposal - i m sure it would work, but not sure if it provides all the positive effect. most pilots on the server are no aces and fights do not take hours - thats only a very small minority.
edit: is it an option to get rid of universal armor? - so that only ships with 300+ cargo hold (200+ VIII) can use armor upgrades?
Fighters should be fun... - Gamazson - 12-23-2007
I 100% agree that fighter fights need to end quickly. However we would need to address transports again. In a fight with tank target I had a C-trans, normal armour mark 8, and 8 turrets which did 400 at the time. I was also short 130 bats and bots because I just bought the ship. That fight took over 2 hours and we were evenly matched the whole way time. I eventually lost (I flew into explosive gas hoping it would help, but I was shielding him and taking all of those hits)
Now if transports remain as is, and the fighters are given weaker armour, a transport will rape incoming fighters in seconds.
Fighters should be fun... - Jinx - 12-23-2007
but if universal armor is taken away - armor "weighs" 300 - thats a lot for a transport to have in his hold
Fighters should be fun... - chopper - 12-23-2007
If it is made like that to stop cap ship whoring, then you can do next.
50% bots/bats, and a bit stronger weapons for fighters only.
It will make fights fast, and weapons will make more damage to both capital ships and fighters.
Maybe only for 600 speed and bellow weapons?
So it will compensate the lack of those 50% bots/bats we have now.
Just a thought.
Fighters should be fun... - mjolnir - 12-23-2007
I'm all for it ...my almost daily fights with Spear always last over an hour... before he gives up :P
Usually in about all my fights it's very soon decided who will win/loose (not so many people can change their tactics completely) after that it's just a question of time/patience.... especialy against bombers.
But the only solution I see as easy to implement/balance is the one that Yngen suggested
Reduce bats/bots on fighters
to half what they are now.
- once you take armor away (or decrease it) you'll have to rebalance quite a lot of weapons.
- once you start to mess with individual weapons balance... it will mess up balance of all ship classes and weapons in the game... and also destroy variety (if as chopper sugested you change just some weapons)
When reducing bat/bots the fighter/bomber vs caps balance will also be changed... mostly in fighter/bomber vs gunboat fights.... so it will require quite a big testing/balancing effort.... otherwise gunboats will be even more spammed than now.
EDIT: First now I fully got what chopper meant.... problem is that those "slow" weapons can always be used against other fighters....*points at his Mini Razor*