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+--- Thread: Dublin Zones of Control/Sovereignity Discussion (/showthread.php?tid=54720)
Dublin Zones of Control/Sovereignity Discussion - sadtranslation - 02-10-2011
' Wrote:Please elaborate on the issue you offer to elaborate on.
One positive aspect of this is it allows for BAF and Mollys to redefine their relationship in a way that doesn't preclude violence, but doesn't necessitate it either. We can have turf skirmishes within reason, as we test the limits of the boundaries indicated.
Another positive aspect, for BAF at least, is that we can share the responsibility for Dublin with others. We keep getting slammed because the place is a madhouse. A little defined zone of influence for others might help spread that around a bit. I'm not sure, but I want to give it a try.
When I talk about cons for Mollys, I point at vanilla rumors that clearly shown that Mollys and BMM are in strict opposition. And since BMM is a state corporation of Bretonia, Mollys and any Mollys' attempts for establishing mining and trading will be oppressed by Bretonia, because it's against the state's interests in the best way.
I also point to the recent development of Mollys, including MMC as Mollys' mining corporation. I don't mind to see Mollys' mining, but while BMM slowly collects information about it, Bretonia in general tends to ignore both Mollys cooperation with IMG (but that's not the worst thing) and their work with DSE (uh, the contracts that were opened to public) instead of lore-wise work with Junkers. Taking into consideration importance of BMM (similiarity between Bretonia and Russia when it comes to mining industry makes me actually chuckle - hope it won't turn into "idiot, he's seeking for realism in space shooter game) for Bretonian economy somehow justify economic warfare.
Dublin Zones of Control/Sovereignity Discussion - Govedo13 - 02-10-2011
' Wrote:Had you got a better recipie to bury the BMM?Or not the Mollys will still shoot the BMMs. So it doesn't matter really. Such system influence plan existed back in the past, nobody cared for it.... why? Because the BMMs have no motive to go in the molly space to mine and the mollys have no motive to stay in their space since they cannot pirate the BMMs there because there weren't any. , so the mollys start to pirate the BMMs in bretonian space and then we have the not U game where every Molly will confess that he is not pirate and all the miners will blame him that he is pirate. Without changing the mining system in the Dublin there is no way to divide the system to prevent the lolwut stuff happening there. BMMs for sure have other not such profitable fields to mine so why you all want the best credit per second rate and at the same time want to be protected by BAF? Higher risks lead to higher Profit....
under Bretonia's jurisdiction....
If BAF wants to be neutral with mollys then they should give them the chance to shoot BMMs unpunished in the molly space.... Otherwise nothing will change the status-quo the whole plan will fail like the last one.
Dublin Zones of Control/Sovereignity Discussion - Hastings - 02-10-2011
' Wrote:When I talk about cons for Mollys, I point at vanilla rumors that clearly shown that Mollys and BMM are in strict opposition. And since BMM is a state corporation of Bretonia, Mollys and any Mollys' attempts for establishing mining and trading will be oppressed by Bretonia, because it's against the state's interests in the best way.
Which is exactly why the IMG is allowed to retain bases at the Hood, Cardiff, and South Shields despite opposition from BMM and Bowex?
Dublin Zones of Control/Sovereignity Discussion - sadtranslation - 02-10-2011
' Wrote:Which is exactly why the IMG is allowed to retain bases at the Hood, Cardiff, and South Shields despite opposition from BMM and Bowex?Again, lore-wise IMG is a "loose confederation of miners who work those fields that have thus far remained undeveloped by the larger mining companies"; in fact, wiki pages for Cardiff and South Shields mostly answer the questions. Hood in Dublin somehow helps with maintaining a sort of stability in its part of Dublin, but roleplay-wise IMG operates under numerous restrictions and in the less rich ore deposits then BMM. Also, the conflicts between BMM and Mollys and BMM and Gaians will seriously endanger their work in such an area. (Here I summon some IMG players that know the conditions Guild operates there under, because they know them much better)
' Wrote:Molly will confess that he is not pirate and all the miners will blame him that he is pirate. Without changing the mining system in the Dublin there is no way to divide the system to prevent the lolwut stuff happening there.There are two things that confuse me that much. First one is what is Molly-that-is-not-a-pirate doing in proximity of BMM operations? Molly that is not a pirate is already a kind of oxymoron even in the light of recent changes.
If BAF wants to be neutral with mollys then they should give them the chance to shoot BMMs unpunished in the molly space.
And, uh, BMM in Molly space? Unpunished? Huh?
Dublin Zones of Control/Sovereignity Discussion - Eichann Rush - 02-10-2011
' Wrote:When I talk about cons for Mollys, I point at vanilla rumors that clearly shown that Mollys and BMM are in strict opposition. And since BMM is a state corporation of Bretonia, Mollys and any Mollys' attempts for establishing mining and trading will be oppressed by Bretonia, because it's against the state's interests in the best way.Mollys already mine lots and lots in RP. The cheapest base gold around comes from Londonderry. Gold ore drops there, Mollys simply don't have a significant mining bonus beacuse it supposedly would unbalance the faction.
I also point to the recent development of Mollys, including MMC as Mollys' mining corporation. I don't mind to see Mollys' mining, but while BMM slowly collects information about it, Bretonia in general tends to ignore both Mollys cooperation with IMG (but that's not the worst thing) and their work with DSE (uh, the contracts that were opened to public) instead of lore-wise work with Junkers. Taking into consideration importance of BMM (similiarity between Bretonia and Russia when it comes to mining industry makes me actually chuckle - hope it won't turn into "idiot, he's seeking for realism in space shooter game) for Bretonian economy somehow justify economic warfare.
The mining and selling of gold is in-rp how the mollies have paid for their massive war against Bretonia.
' Wrote:There are two things that confuse me that much. First one is what is Molly-that-is-not-a-pirate doing in proximity of BMM operations? Molly that is not a pirate is already a kind of oxymoron even in the light of recent changes.We wouldn't have to pirate if we could just blow BMM up.
And, uh, BMM in Molly space? Unpunished? Huh?
As for the issue at hand, Dieter, that's kindof how it works already. Very rarely do i see any BMM or BAF on the Molly side, and we do work together for the KNF and KPT and Corsairs. As for the Mollies, When we venture over to the BMM fields we know stuffs going down.
In conclusion, i oorply support this, and any attempt to negotiate it with the Council, but you can bet your sweet Hege Rush has a few choice words on the matter.
Dublin Zones of Control/Sovereignity Discussion - sadtranslation - 02-10-2011
' Wrote:Mollys already mine lots and lots in RP. The cheapest base gold around comes from Londonderry. Gold ore drops there, Mollys simply don't have a significant mining bonus beacuse it supposedly would unbalance the faction.True. I just pointed to the organised group such as MMC, that gave Mollys' mining roleplay some kind of a ground. I only think that it will in no way make Mollys semi-lawful - and while they do it rather secretly with the help of Junkers, it still against Bretonia's interests since money Mollys get are spent on weapons and ships for a "fierce group of terrorists and pirates, using attacks on commercial shipping and mining operations, civilian establishments, and BAF bases and convoys in their fight to gain independence." In other words, I have hard time understanding political balance around.
The mining and selling of gold is in-rp how the mollies have paid for their massive war against Bretonia.
Basically, situation when Mollys are mining and selling gold inrp is one level; Molly players mining and trading take this roleplay to a new one.
Dublin Zones of Control/Sovereignity Discussion - Hastings - 02-10-2011
' Wrote:In conclusion, i oorply support this, and any attempt to negotiate it with the Council, but you can bet your sweet Hege Rush has a few choice words on the matter.
And it is for that reason I adore you, and wish many more players were like you. <3
But what Dieter's proposing is making it official, and in the process trying to publicly clear up any grey areas. It also serves as a forum for potential faction changes in the future.
DELETE - SnakThree - 02-10-2011
DELETE
Dublin Zones of Control/Sovereignity Discussion - Hastings - 02-10-2011
' Wrote:True. I just pointed to the organised group such as MMC, that gave Mollys' mining roleplay some kind of a ground. I only think that it will in no way make Mollys semi-lawful - and while they do it rather secretly with the help of Junkers, it still against Bretonia's interests since money Mollys get are spent on weapons and ships for a "fierce group of terrorists and pirates, using attacks on commercial shipping and mining operations, civilian establishments, and BAF bases and convoys in their fight to gain independence." In other words, I have hard time understanding political balance around.
Basically, situation when Mollys are mining and selling gold inrp is one level; Molly players mining and trading take this roleplay to a new one.
Firstly, just because a faction was one way in the past does not mean it remains that way. Discovery is an evolving storyline, and the Mollys have evolved from annoying second tier NPC mobs to a much more complex and dare I say beautiful group of factions.
Secondly, I would argue that Dieter's proposition pays far more mind to the national interest. Of our opponents, many of the the Mollys are more likely to curb their offenses through diplomacy than either Kusari or our soon-to-be enemy Gallia. If Bretonia and the Mollys can meet halfway, it frees up scores of warships and fighters from that tar pit we call Dublin for use where they are far more desperately needed.
Finally, while BMM may hold heavy sway economically and politically, this is a wartime environment and sometimes niceties we enjoy during peacetime have to be curtailed in war, especially in a defensive war for the survival of the nation such as this.
Dublin Zones of Control/Sovereignity Discussion - Hastings - 02-10-2011
' Wrote:Guys?.. So you ar taking the two fields that are mined the most, giving the Mollys area where nothing is valueable.
I mean BAF already patrols your area. And only there as I saw it.
You are just making it like a written fact.
I would rather see you patroling just around Essex. To make the miners feel more unsecure as it should be. Since there's already too many of lolminers that take Bret GB to gank any pirate. I even got my Scylla shot by CAP8 miners =D It was fun, but absolutly stupid.
My point is to leave the Dublin as it is or even better lower your numbers in it/relocate to Leeds.
Hence why the suggestion of balancing the concentration of ore somewhat more evenly is very prudent - give them a choice between profit with added risk or security.
If we aren't going to patrol Dublin at all we might as well just withdraw from the system and recognize the Mollys as the legitimate political authority in Dublin. I wouldn't mind that either.