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+--- Thread: Unofficial factions in relation to official factions (/showthread.php?tid=9714)
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - mwerte - 06-25-2008
GAH! *cuts off fingers so he doesn't post*
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - Unholy1 - 06-25-2008
After thinking about it I feel a couple of things I said in my last post might have been crossing the line...
I just would like to have the groups resolve this issue in a civil manner . That is all we are asking for, we both fly in the same system so why should we be fighting over something if you think about , doesn't even matter it isn't like we fired on one of your guys for no reason or anything and the same for you guys.
It is over more talk then play if you know what I mean.
Your group is not our enemy at the time so do you think we can keep it that way ?
Capt.Unholy1
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - Grimtooth - 06-25-2008
Ok before this gets out of hand and turns into a major flame fest let me try and diffuse the situation.
First let me describe what we in the SOB see ourselves as. We are a para military group we have a chain of command but are not in the military. We have agreed to take orders from 101st and the 66th as per negotiated agreement with their Commanders. We do respect the fact that we are not an official faction yet although we are working towards that goal. All we ask is you treat us as you would have us treat you. I don't think that is to much to ask. I would like to also give some background on our group. In real life most of us belong to a squad that owns and runs servers for FPS games and only the top three in command have a great deal of RP background. The others range from some RP to none at all. We have made it a requirement for members of SOB to learn how to RP to the best ability they can and if they are not interested in RP then we do not want them. This goes for members of our FPS squad as well as anyone looking to join us. We consider the role play of this server the most important part of playing here and we are not looking for members who just want to fly around and blast things. I personally have only seen one incident where a member of SOB was less than respectful of any player in this game and he has been spoken to.
We found this game and those of us who were getting bored with the same old run blast and die the are what most FPS games boil down to said "hey lets give this a try it looks like fun". All we ask is that you give us a chance to get to know you all and for you to get to know us. Who knows maybe we can become friends and have some fun.
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - Jihadjoe - 06-26-2008
I get the impression from the anger here that my point may have been missed.
I am not in any way rubbishing your roleplay or anything about it. I am merely stating my point of view.
You may also note that I didn't include any refference to the actual event that occured. The post was inspired by it, but it was not about just that. Infact the whole thing made me thing about the way I percieve things. It ios good to question yourself once in a while, and that made me do so.
May I also point out that I am not the leader of the RoS as your post implies, but that we operate a group method of running things, this is simply my veiw, not that of the RopS as a whole. I am NOT speaking for them.
IMO the roleplay included in the event to which you reffer was rather good. You played your role (as per your faction's roleplay) well.
However my question still stands. How should unofficial factions (who after all, with the limitations of the game engine only partake in the same actions as the official ones, despite the roleplay possably differing) relate to official ones, do official factions have the ability to order about the unofficial factions?
As a side note what I will say is that you were somewhat rude about the RoS, saying that we were somehow inferiour due to not being true outcasts. However the three Reapers you saw, infact ARE outcasts, all raised on Malta, and all have Outcast blood and a good healthy cardi addiction.
I am sorry for my rude PM in game, but at the time I was trying to get some semblance of order in the system. As someone who has been roleplaying an outcast for a very long time, I know the way OC politics works now (finally).
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - n00bl3t - 06-26-2008
Factions shouldn't have the authority to order them into doing something.
Why?
Because if they wanted to be ordered around...they'd join the faction.
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - Angelfire - 06-26-2008
It really is a tough subject eh!
Nooblet is right, but the problem comes in when an entire faction gets ignored or defied by a single player.
My question remains: Who gets preference in the fun department? A group of players or a single individual?
Without other players, the single individual may as well be playing the single player version, but we come here for human interaction so we should all actually be doing our utmost to see what is best for the group as opposed to hundreds of individuals who come here to play solely on their own terms!
I know it would seem unfair to an Indy that the group must come first, but it is massively unfair for a single individual to disregard the play dynamic of larger groups who are not violating server rules in any way.
Concerning Official and unofficial factions: Personally, I feel that all relationships should be determined within RP terms and in those terms, whoever was there first (Official or unofficial) should be given the chance to understand the RP of the newcomer.
If they decide to be unrealistic or unfair in their response to the newcomer, then it should be taken up with Admins.
If the newcomer is unrealistic then off to the Admins you go...
This stuff should actually be simple case of good manners and mutual respect!
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - Asymptotic - 06-26-2008
the issue is with chains of command... factions shouldn't be able to lock down an npc faction to the extent where owning the ID means virtually the same thing as "joining" the player faction. many players don't *want* to join player factions. let them play as indie and don't restrict where they can go so long as it's ZOI. Ship restrictions are, however, reasonable so long as it's just battleships and such.
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - mazdamack - 06-26-2008
OKay, here is my two cents
Captain the SpacePrivateer (now retired), [OSF]MNS Capriccio, fred Boscolini[101st], adn 2 other chard under develpoment atm (both bridge crew of the capriccio) all played by me, and all have been hanging out in alpha since the SOB started to show up, give or take a couple days. I KNOW I flying around alpha in the privateer for 2 weeks before i ever saw an {SOB} tag. i saw the SOB form from outside the faction circles.
I dont think i was in system when this particular incident took place, as i never saw anything to hostile in the comms, and never a face off of any type. Couple harsh words, nothign seroius. In fact, im kinda suprised it happened, It seemed they were getting together rather well.
Now that i gave some background on my POV . . .
I can understand why unnoficial factions dont take orders from the official ones, they have a slightly different agenda. Do you think a cop IRL would take all orders from a Military officer - no. They hafve different goals - cop trying to catch drug dealers and murders, the military to stop invading armies.
Thats how i kinda see the situation between unofficial factions and official ones.
Instead of issuing orders, try asking or suggesting. When i come into system in the Capriccio, I RP command by being nice, and both SOB and RoS members did what i ASKED NOT ORDERED them to do. Both were under no obligation to follow my orders, basically an indie capship owner. and here the kicker - in the same ship and same bridge offier responding (yes i have several that take command from time to time - makes for some nice rp on occasion) i followed thier orders (once again, said nicely).
boilied down to the simplest form it can be said as . . .
CO-OPERATION AND RESPECT
If both sides do this, i dont see why there would be a problem, they both work for the same side i assume?
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - n00bl3t - 06-26-2008
' Wrote:It really is a tough subject eh!
Nooblet is right, but the problem comes in when an entire faction gets ignored or defied by a single player.
My question remains: Who gets preference in the fun department? A group of players or a single individual?
Without other players, the single individual may as well be playing the single player version, but we come here for human interaction so we should all actually be doing our utmost to see what is best for the group as opposed to hundreds of individuals who come here to play solely on their own terms!
I know it would seem unfair to an Indy that the group must come first, but it is massively unfair for a single individual to disregard the play dynamic of larger groups who are not violating server rules in any way.
Concerning Official and unofficial factions: Personally, I feel that all relationships should be determined within RP terms and in those terms, whoever was there first (Official or unofficial) should be given the chance to understand the RP of the newcomer.
If they decide to be unrealistic or unfair in their response to the newcomer, then it should be taken up with Admins.
If the newcomer is unrealistic then off to the Admins you go...
This stuff should actually be simple case of good manners and mutual respect!
Well said. It comes down to trust. What power you trust the individual with and what power you trust the faction with. The lack of trust is what is a key issue.
' Wrote:the issue is with chains of command... factions shouldn't be able to lock down an npc faction to the extent where owning the ID means virtually the same thing as "joining" the player faction. many players don't *want* to join player factions. let them play as indie and don't restrict where they can go so long as it's ZOI. Ship restrictions are, however, reasonable so long as it's just battleships and such.
Simply put, RM.
' Wrote:OKay, here is my two cents
Captain the SpacePrivateer (now retired), [OSF]MNS Capriccio, fred Boscolini[101st], adn 2 other chard under develpoment atm (both bridge crew of the capriccio) all played by me, and all have been hanging out in alpha since the SOB started to show up, give or take a couple days. I KNOW I flying around alpha in the privateer for 2 weeks before i ever saw an {SOB} tag. i saw the SOB form from outside the faction circles.
I dont think i was in system when this particular incident took place, as i never saw anything to hostile in the comms, and never a face off of any type. Couple harsh words, nothign seroius. In fact, im kinda suprised it happened, It seemed they were getting together rather well.
Now that i gave some background on my POV . . .
I can understand why unnoficial factions dont take orders from the official ones, they have a slightly different agenda. Do you think a cop IRL would take all orders from a Military officer - no. They hafve different goals - cop trying to catch drug dealers and murders, the military to stop invading armies.
Thats how i kinda see the situation between unofficial factions and official ones.
Instead of issuing orders, try asking or suggesting. When i come into system in the Capriccio, I RP command by being nice, and both SOB and RoS members did what i ASKED NOT ORDERED them to do. Both were under no obligation to follow my orders, basically an indie capship owner. and here the kicker - in the same ship and same bridge offier responding (yes i have several that take command from time to time - makes for some nice rp on occasion) i followed thier orders (once again, said nicely).
boilied down to the simplest form it can be said as . . .
CO-OPERATION AND RESPECT
If both sides do this, i dont see why there would be a problem, they both work for the same side i assume?
Let's not go into who was here first at all. I haven't seen any hostility from them at all. They help out with hostiles, etc. They've shown that they are willing to defend the Orange Dream first.
As for them not taking orders; I would seriously like to know what happened. Especially since they are contract outcasts, and as such why would they take orders from RoS?
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - Grimtooth - 06-26-2008
I think maybe it was a misunderstanding of the role play within the outcasts by some of the SOB who are new to RP. They did not understand that the Maltese consider themselves superior to others because of being raised on a world where Cardamine is in everything and has enhanced the minds of the Maltese people and thus they tend to be haughty and a bit snobbish with some others. I think some of our members who are new to RP took this the wrong way and were unsure how to respond and a comment was made about getting tired of RoS ordering us around. The newer RP'ers did not realise that the RoS were just playing their role and were not trying to be offensive or insulting. Those of us who have more RP experience are coaching those who are new and giving them advice and hopefully they will mature into good RP gamers. As i have stated before we consider the RP to be the most important facet of the game and expect our members to treat it the same way.
We as a group are grateful for any input and suggestions to help us improve our play as well. I must say i have had more fun since i started playing this game than i have in years probably as much fun as learning Dungeons and Dragons Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when first edition was new yeah yeah i get teased about being older than dirt.