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+--- Thread: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. (/showthread.php?tid=103643)
RE: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. - Black Widow - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 05:22 PM)Hell Hunter Wrote:(08-22-2013, 04:57 PM)Ed- Wrote:(08-22-2013, 04:55 PM)NonSequitor Wrote: For what it's worth, my own biased opinion: if BSes are removed from the ID, might as well remove them from all of the Omicron factions.
Some notable exceptions: The Order keeps one (1) Osiris (from the SP story) and the Nomads keep their limited number of Marduks (see Osiris).
If you are refering to the Isis as that Order BS then... though luck, it's destroyed and dead already
I hope you do realise the Apophis is still there.
And you don't need to remove BS's from all ID's just because 1 neutral stanced id lost it >.>
I love it when you see your plans back-fire <.<
RE: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. - Black Widow - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 05:26 PM)HarryHicks Wrote:(08-22-2013, 05:24 PM)Black Widow Wrote: USA did not exist 500 Years ago
Way to miss the point in every possible way.
Dont QQ me bro or come at me bro Im jus sayin what WIKI is sayin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_%28United_States%29
2013 - 1776 = / = 500 Years ago
RE: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. - ProwlerPC - 08-22-2013
I'm afraid the Zoner movement is younger then you think. No one has taken the time to rewrite those origins or push it's date further back in history. The first group who left the Houses was GMG some 600 yrs ago and are recognized by it's neighbouring houses as a sovereign entity which it achieved in a war against the armada of one of those houses without the need to use caps. Those nice thoughtful contributions you mention were slapped on without fixing the original story it was based on and yes billions with the addition of GC. I'm not so sure you are well versed in either the Vanilla lore or the Disco lore of Zoners.
RE: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. - ProwlerPC - 08-22-2013
Believe me there's no logical way from an RP point or an RL comparison point to argue about the Zoner leap until someone takes a magnifying glass and goes through all rumours and infocards with the goal of making Zoners older then they really are. (they are older then 20yr but yes 20 yrs ago they were only some several thousand strong). Until then the only rational discussion we are left with is the gameplay and impact of Zoner caps. If it's even a question anways. I don't think it's even close to being a matter that will make it on the staff table. If the caps were gonna be removed someone woulda stepped up yrs ago to do it. Like GMG did with their ID waay back in 2008. It's beyond too late now and I only implore (once again) that the devs relook at the entire time line of the Zoner rumours and infocards and make blanket changes as well as other factions who have infocards that refer to a younger, weaker, less populated Zoner movement.
RE: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. - Madvillain - 08-22-2013
The wise person in me says remove battleships from zoner ID or even better severely nerf them to liner stats so they still can be used but not abused .
The sair in me just want's to hurl torps at them and doesn't care.
RE: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. - Pavel - 08-22-2013
@ Prowler
To be exact, Zoner movement started 80 years ago:
vanilla infocard,
and developed Disco one.
RE: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. - DarthBindo - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 08:58 AM)Jinx Wrote: just a few things that need to be set straightWhether or not it is currently owned by a faction is irrelevant to it's lore status.
- 74 is LORE and disco canon - it is NOT a guard system anymore and not owned by anyone - but that means that its installations and infrastructure is disco canon.
It got in without any lore checks, with free reign to develop any old damn thing the owning faction wanted. It's not lore. It won't be lore, it can't be lore, not until the devs/admins take a hammer and a hacksaw to it (like they did to the Colonial guard system).
(08-22-2013, 10:09 AM)Saronsen Wrote:(08-22-2013, 10:05 AM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: I can count to potato.
Okay, lemme spell it out for you.
The Zoners have failed miserably in their communications, diplomacy, and existance as a whole. Their expensive, highly irreplaceable battleships are in the hands of every Order captain and their mother, and theyre waging war with everyone in the Omicrons.
What you need to do, as a Zoner, is prove to us that you guys aren't, in fact, inflicted with Downs syndrome, and can not only control your capital vessels, but maintain your neutrality through the old Zoner way of Diplomacy, instead of going YAAAAAAY BATTLESHIPS!
Zoners have no reason for Battleships, and haven't since Vanilla. Prove us wrong.
You're not convincing me, that's for sure.
(08-22-2013, 05:41 PM)ProwlerPC Wrote: I don't think it's even close to being a matter that will make it on the staff table. If the caps were gonna be removed someone woulda stepped up yrs ago to do it. Like GMG did with their ID waay back in 2008.
Thing is, there is preceendence for whacking the Zoner faction with a hammer when they get out of line.
The Zoner Whale used to be transport and ID of choice for every bumped-up powertrader and lolcaptain, navigating the tradelanes with their majestic call of "ZONUR NO U CAN PIRAT", ignoring every applicable House law, drowning out all the other trade factions in a sea of gunless ships.
What happened?
Unilaterally, without input or request from the Zoner official factions at the time, the Whale/Zoner ship id combo got wtfpwned like a boss.
Despite the collective outpouring of QQ that resulted, It would, i think, be hard for anyone to argue that the server is not now much better off beacuse of it.
And here we are again. The vast, overwhelming, extremely out of roleplay number of Zoner capitals, and the manner in which they are played, are causing problems.
Can anyone really argue that the server wouldn't be better off it we took them out, or nerfed, or limited them?
Can you really?
Or is it just me that remembers Omicron Gamma getting raided by half a Dozen Juggernauts?
RE: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. - ProwlerPC - 08-22-2013
I'm for it, believe me, I've done this argument many times. I was also at the front lines when we removed the caps from GMG ID. There's some kinda super powerful shield blocking all attempts over the years. We admins aren't devs, however, and can only toss in opinions like everyone else.
RE: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. - ProwlerPC - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 06:13 PM)Pavel Wrote: @ Prowler
To be exact, Zoner movement started 80 years ago:
vanilla infocard,
and developed Disco one.
Yeah see, there we go. Waaaaay to short of a time. For the power Zoners have in Disco today the date of their beginnings would need to be pushed back centuries, perhaps even superceding the GMG since it appears the Zoners had more time to build their power and population to staggering levels. But then also that would mean Zoner woulda settled and controlled the Sigma clouds and there wouldn't have been a GMG around to tell the Zoner movement to "keep moving on, these clouds are already settled".
RE: Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID. - Knjaz - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 04:58 AM)SMGSterlin Wrote: I'm all for removing BS's from the normal Zoner ID.
Should they still have a colony ship? Yes, but it shouldn't be a full-fledged battleship. Either make a colony liner, or nerf the speed/firepower of the Jinkusu to make it represent a mobile freeport (which is the purpose of it), kinda like the Barge, but not as extreme.
Just nerf the Zoner BS in a way - cut the heavy/medium slots, cut the power generation.
2 Heavies, 2 mediums, rest lights, 220k\sec regen with 7kk powercore, possibly same hull as it is now. And Nephilim will be used for RP... I meant, peaceful purposes, while still being able to defend itself.
In other words, turn it into something as bad (without hull nerfing) or worse (with hull nerfing) than Kronos is, so only enthusiasts or masochists will use it for PVP. Trust me, it'll work.