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+--- Thread: Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out (/showthread.php?tid=47865)
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Ryummel - 05-20-2011
' Wrote:This is how you got access to all Outcast tech? Cool story bro!If you dig in Aoi's MD thread, you may see the complete chatlog about what happened later.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Athenian - 05-20-2011
Admin input? I've posted on this before.
I'll quote Dusty's words when this faction was first approved.
"Gents, with great power comes great etc.
Do good out there."
Obviously a faction of this nature will attract a lot of attention, not all of it necessarily of the favourable kind. This faction's behaviour has the potential to impact on other players disproportionately, good or bad. I've seen the same issues arising here again, so possibly these issues can be resolved, using the input of administrators and developers and other players.
Mod development is sharply undermined by mixing of technology, therefore issues like this will arise. These are real problems that affect all players and cause resentment. These grievances are genuine. When they do arise, players in possession of what is perceived as greater freedoms and stronger combinations can be as defensive as they want in their responses. However, that defensiveness has its limits when it comes to moving discussions forward.
' Wrote:Rules, rules, rules.
Your rules, their rules, my rules?
Old rules, new rules, those rules, whose rules?
This is unhelpful. All players will abide by the same rules that apply to everyone else. There may be problems with the rule system that has evolved here, but those problems don't mean that people can choose to ignore rules or choose what ones they are prepared to abide by, even if you think they are being used to score points against you, which is what chopper is apparently doing, although it's clear that the real issue here is confusion on the sides of both parties.
Quote:Why do Das Wilde place SRPs for ships? Because they are not within the Das Wilde official ship list.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...25332&st=20
Why do the Aoi Iseijin not place SRPs for Kusari ships? Because they're in Aoi Iseijin official ship list.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...mp;#entry742736
Ship usage is primarily governed by ID, secondarily governed by permission.
An Aoi Iseijin ID does not exist at present. What Das Wilde can use, the Iseijin cannot, and vice versa. Yet they use the same ID.
The Aoi Iseijin therefore take ship usage from permission, granted implicitly and explicitly at the time of faction creation.
I have no idea where you got the notion that factions can only use ships that happen to be on their own bases.
The faction can use whatever they wrote in their original request, ie "Kusari Naval Forces ships such as the Chimaera or the Umibozu, coupled with the odd gunboat and Blood Dragon ship". It defeats the purpose of a request if you have to go and request everything all over again.
Nothing else has been explicitly approved by the administrative team.
There is no implicit permission to use anything not written in the original request. There is nothing implicit in this game. Implicit permission causes explicit problems.
Amending a faction description does not allow that faction to use anything automatically. However, what is written is open to change. We are of the opinion that a faction's roleplay should be allowed to evolve, within reason. What counts as "within reason" depends on many things, mostly common sense.
Other issues arising here seem to be based on the issue of perceived customising to achieve advantage. Saying "We'll use these or how would you like Scorpion Gunboats" is unhelpful.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - VoluptaBox - 05-20-2011
' Wrote:If you dig in Aoi's MD thread, you may see the complete chatlog about what happened later.
CBA to do it right now, but I take your word. I'll crawl back to my cave
![[Image: emoticon-00174-bandit.gif]](http://www.skype-emoticons.com/images/emoticon-00174-bandit.gif)
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - asgaron - 05-20-2011
Very interesting stuff to read here.
If I may give a little advice: Please do not put all the efforts on weapons or ships discussion.
The whole idea has a great potential and you all should concentrate more on the game- and role-play than on the rule stuff.
As a former KNF pilot I know how powerful the the Kusari weapons and ships are, you just need to get familiar with it.
As a Kusari infected faction you should stick to the Kusari tech which would give it a unique touch - just my opinion.:)
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Ayem - 05-20-2011
The Aoi Iseijin possess at least one Chimaera and possibly one Umibozu per member and recruit.
Anyone who does not needs a damn good talking to.
Since I use Chimaeras as a hunter, and many others of us do also, Katanas are outnumbered by KNF tech.
There is no Aoi Iseijin ID. We have to make do with the Das Wilde (Wild) ID. We are only making do. There are plans to introduce an Aoi Iseijin ID.
Aoi Iseijin are also not on the tech chart. We have no cells. We are energaic life forms.
Rules are invented by people. Rules have changed in the past. They will change in the future. The Spyglass just became free use, for example, no longer requiring an SRP. The Aoi Iseijin are free users of Kusari technology. Perhaps that will change in the future. If that is your aim, I would suggest you use the Mod Development sub-forum. Here in our feedback thread we receive criticism, argue and raise points, we do not rewrite rules.
The rules for the Aoi Iseijin are different to the rules for the LPI. How so? We can use a wider variety of ships, our ZoI is different, we can attack anyone we choose while they can only attack those who break the law. However, the LPI can land on a massive amount more bases than our Hunters, can call on support from the LN, and have a legal presence in Liberty space.
Different entities operate by different rules.
The Aoi Iseijin's rules have not been clearly defined -within- the game, but they have been repeatedly defined here. Regards to what is -within- the game, I am not a developer so I cannot introduce a new ID. I apologise for that.
To answer your more flippant remark; yes, if your proposal was accepted, you would be able to backstab people. Faction requests are confirmed by the people who make the rules. Faction confirmations -are- rules. Rules of conduct, technology usage, zoi, etc.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Divine - 05-21-2011
So. From the Faction Status post which is obviously what was approved for the Iseijin. I copied out all the important parts on the ship usage.
What was the problem with that now again compared to what they're using ingame?
' Wrote:...
[color=#f082a4]The Hanta-Isejin...
[color=#f082a4][font=Eras Light ITC]Taskgroups and Ranking
[font=Franklin Gothic Medium]All Hanta-Iseijin ships use the [color=#FFCCCC]113th| tag, and carry either a KNF or KNF Guard ID. These ships are specially repped to the Nomad and Wild to dock on the Arch.
...
Technology and Ships Used
[color=#ffffff][font=Franklin Gothic Medium]Technology Used:All 113th pilots are allowed to use civilian, generic, Codename and Kusari military weapons. Non-Kusari equipment require permission from a superior officer to use.
- Wyrm - Lighter ships used for recon and sometimes on patrols.
- Chimaera - Default ships for the 113th, all pilots must have one of these ships available to fly at all times.
- Umibozu - For use against heavily armored smugglers and foreign capital ships.
- Kusari Gunboat - A few of these ships are tasked with the defence of the Tohoku system, those that aren't are used for patrols and recon.
- Kusari Destroyer - Ships such as the Destroyer are used for the defence of Tohoku, or to counter hostile capital ships.
- Kusari Battleship - Rarely seen in the 113th|, ships such as the Kusari Battleship might be deployed for the defence of Kusari.
Any additional ships and equipment deployed are usually for special operations such as deep recon into hostile space, or to counter a particularly threatening enemy.
The Hanta-Iseijin use the same cells as the Kusari Naval Forces on the Tech Chart.
...
[color=#d155e3]The Remnants of Tekagi
...
[color=#d155e3][font=Eras Light ITC]Taskgroups and Ranking...
The Hunters are the overt arm of the Aoi Iseijin, their tactics often include luring unsuspecting prey into improvised traps or slipping into battles and dispatching high value targets before either side knows what's happening. Hunters have been seen in a large variety of Kusari ships, ranging from criminals to armed forces, this only adds the confusion.
...
[color=#d155e3][font=Eras Light ITC]Technology and Ships Used
[font=Franklin Gothic Medium]The Remnants of Tekagi are found to use a variety of ships from within Kusari, usually Naval or Dragon ships, though often the infected keep ships or tech from their previous lives. These ships are known to be hybridised with Nomad Weaponary....
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Zelot - 05-21-2011
I have one question that might help alot of us understand what is going on here. Could you please list the ships that are ok for your faction, hunter and trappers, to use. Just a simple list, or even just what you are using, but I prefer what you are allowed to use.
Thanks.
By the way, that question is only for someone from the Aoi to answer.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Ayem - 05-21-2011
Thank you Asgaron. We definately do not focus on talking about weapons while we're ingame. Please check our message dump thread here:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...5874&st=240
As many of the people I interacted with mentioned in my last message dump post can attest, my weapons weren't even warmed up!
Alas, poor Zoners.
To Athenian:
I would argue that it is not unhelpful, but that I more accurately present the latticework of different rules on this server than chopper's black and white approach.
When I said that we could use scorpions, I meant that we can- under chopper's insistence that we use only ships on our station. In fact, we'd be rather limited to just three ships. There would be a lot more Scorpions. We don't want that. Kusari should be Kusari, we say.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Ayem - 05-21-2011
Post held for Zelot's requested Hunter tech chart.
Aoi Iseijin General Information and Place to cry your eyes out - Jeremy Hunter - 05-21-2011
Yes, I'd like to point out an Osiris, a Geb, a GB, and two fighters were attacked by two fighters, onw bomber, and Mandate.Of.Heaven. And Commies.
I don't see anyone that was there complaining. Unless you were the Geb Mandate helped to rape.
I've encountered Aoi twice on my Order. First time Chimarea, Karasu, and Black Dragon on my old Bastet. Second time just that Karasu I saw while on my Neph. But an LSF was shot down somewhere els.
Honestly.
Out of everyone who has fought them in the aforementioned situations I have witnessed, no one complained about ships or tech. All were fun.
Can't we just forget this crap and play the damn game?
I doubt you are losing sleep chopper. Its a game. We're here'to have fun.
Tell us, have they ruined your fun?
If not, then can we stop this ongoing annoyance and get back to roleplaying?