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+---- Thread: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? (/showthread.php?tid=120885)
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Parmenter - 04-03-2015
I don't see how its survivability makes it OP. I don't see a lot of people dying to Salvagers. But then, I don't know what JM is flying up in Kusari. Junkers are already considered cockroaches by most of society. Seems reasonable that they fly something similar.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Mímir - 04-03-2015
Well sure, lots of things happen. I died in many remarkable ways, even in very good ships.
The point is that even a player with 0 experience but the ability to read will see that the Salvager/Raba are very different than other ships in their class. On top of that is a thing like shape which is more difficult to explain via stats, but is easily recognized through experience.
Now you have the experiences of folks less successful at PVP on the one hand, and the experiences of another group of players that are far more successful at PVP on the other - which set of experiences would you put your faith in?
Again there's the fact that the Salvager sports the hull of a battle transport, gunboat turrets and as many regens as a cruiser - you don't need skill or experience to realize that that sets these transports apart from other transports.
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I love that ship, it's a superior cash cow, it looks awesome and "unique" and has a nice infocard. Even a mining bonus and gunboat turrets and a pretty sweet cargo hold, not to mention the heavy armored hull and the OP do-all/carry-all Junker ID.
It doesn't need the regen capacity of a capital class ship to be a superb transport!
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Hawk - 04-03-2015
It's not a superior cash cow. There are plenty of more profitable ships which I find just as survivable which is why I haven't traded in a salvager in years.
I guess this is going to continue with the same fallacies. That's fine, but as I see this descending into rude words and name calling, I'm going bow out. Enjoy yourselves.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Omi - 04-03-2015
You should have bowed out hours ago.
The bloody thing has pages upon pages of advantages over its peers, and your best argument so far has been 'well I don't die in other ships too'
Bring something objective to prove your case or do everyone a favour and do just the opposite - bow out and sit down.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Mímir - 04-03-2015
What ship is just as survivable and profitable as the Salvager?
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Pancakes - 04-03-2015
(04-03-2015, 10:39 PM)Hawk Wrote: At least tell it right. I never said my salvager died to two gunboats, although that's happened often enough. I was actually talking about a time four salvagers died to two gunboats within 40k of a base.
The question is not whether or not a salvager would live x distance, but whether or not a ship in similar size hold would.
And the answer is no, it won't. Most 3kerish transports have ~400 regens, the 2 Frigates have 700 for Raba and 750 for Salvager - explain to me why, Hawk?
Lets make a comparsion between Salvager and Pirate Transport:
(1) Model-Wise size (not that it actually matters very much in these ranges with these kind of guns but lets do it anyway):
Salvager is about twice as bigger from the above, however it's twice as thin from the front and the side - conclusion - attack Salvager from above and Pirate Transport from the side and you'll be golden in both cases
(2) Turn-rate:
23.87 (deg/sec) Maximum turn rate for Pirate Transport, and 22.92 (deg/sec) for Salvager.
Pirate Transport has a maximum turn-rate higher in 4% than Salvager (meager amount)
Salvager however, accelerates about 30% faster than Pirate Transport does, giving it slightly better edge in terms of responsiveness that is much needed to avoid, SNACs, for example
(3) Armor and Regens:
Salvager - 160,000 basic hull, 750 regens
Pirate Transport - 115,000 basic hull 450 regens
In this category you can see a major difference, Salvager has ~40% more basic hull plating, and 67% more Regens
I'd like to remind you all that they are both ships under the same class.
(4) Cargo space:
Salvager - 3350
Pirate Transport - 2900
Salvager has 15% more cargo space
(5) Armament:
Salvager - 7 guns, can mount both transport and GB turrets
Pirate Transport - 9 guns, can only mount transport turrets
(6) Power Core:
Salvager - 400,000 with 40,000 e/sec regen rate
Pirate Transport - 70,000 with 6,000 e/sec regen rate
Salvager has 471% more basic power core, and 567% more regen rate of the power core
So please Hawk, please present me how Salvager is underpowered because 4 of you couldn't run from 2 GUNBOATS for over 40k, which were as you said BDS thus is probably from about 3 years ago when Salvager didn't have the neat Gunboat core like it does now.
EDIT: The only thing I missed out are the gun arcs, and that's because I can't really recall them now, nor be bothered to go check it out, though IIRC at least to the forward Salvager can fire 6 and pirate transport 7. But that's from the depths of my memory, so if anyone cares to add it - please do.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - R.I.P. - 04-03-2015
Bottom line, if you do not have the skill to kill a Salvager, then do not mess with them!
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Mímir - 04-03-2015
No, the bottom line is that if you don't have the skill to fly anything whatsoever, get a Salvager and it will carry you.
Just like how you can always play a Zoner Junker trader and make heaps of credits very easily and with little risk if you lack the imagination to do anything else. I personally hate trading, but of course when I trade I do it in a Junker Salvager because it's just so easy and takes 0 effort (I don't even have to press F3 to dock with lanes, all the profits are based on afk travel through open space, yay).
Would it be possible to get a dev perspective regarding the reasoning behind the Salvager's attributes? Why is it warranted or even needed to have ships that are so drastically different and *better*?
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Haste - 04-04-2015
The Salvager has:
- A model that's a little on the big side.
- Gunboat guns.
- Boatloads of regens.
- Not quite as much cargo as your average powertrader's preferred transport.
Objectively, it's probably the single most survivable transport out there. Except for stuff like the Pelican, perhaps, but that thing's got like one eighth of the Salvager's cargo. It melts to cruisers just like every other transport though, I suspect.
Dunno why people need this to fill many pages talking about it though.
RE: Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high? - Lythrilux - 04-04-2015
can you nerf it yet pls