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+--- Thread: Capital Ship Point Defense (/showthread.php?tid=17826)
Capital Ship Point Defense - Grumblesaur - 03-20-2009
' Wrote:PvP whore? hardly, Why would a PvP whore be a zoner? Makes no sense, It just when i do get into battles, the cap weapons fail so bad its like there is no point anymore in playing with caps at all.Maybe the powers that be are trying to tell you something.
and there is no way of RPing with keepers, they're bigger PvP whores than Necrosis or any other single terrorist ID person (not XA, you guys rule with rP)
There is a way of RPing with Nomads and the infected. Just don't come off as hostile.
Capital Ship Point Defense - Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever - 03-20-2009
So I guess this server will just turn into a fighter-whore (yes i said it) bomber-whore server then?
Capital Ship Point Defense - swift - 03-20-2009
Don't you see there's no point discussing this Kurosora? And don't you both see you'll accomplish nothing by this penis measuring contest?
Keep on topic please, and offer genuine arguments, and use your "indoor voices".
Capital Ship Point Defense - Grumblesaur - 03-20-2009
' Wrote:Don't you see there's no point discussing this Kurosora? And don't you both see you'll accomplish nothing by this penis measuring contest?
Keep on topic please, and offer genuine arguments, and use your "indoor voices".
No there isn't, because Cam stubbornly repeats his moronic and generally contradictory "bomber-whore" statements.
We've all tried to explain to him that caps can't be overpowered and that it's his fault he's in an uberhuge ship.
Capital Ship Point Defense - X-Lancer - 03-20-2009
' Wrote:Your "AA weapons" are designed to KEEP bombers away from you, not to slaughter them. It certainly destroys them when they come close, as the bomber has made a mistake / took a risk in order to hit you easier with the supernova.
Flak and Solaris are not designed to hunt down bombers; they are designed to defend your ship against them. That's why they don't have longer range. If they did, a bomber would be forced to fight from the supernova's max range - good luck hitting with it. A single fighter / gunboat escort and primary turrets can easily deal with a bomber at over 1k distance.
..i can use primary to do that..in such low range....hitting them with Primary in a right time is way better.....In a real fight..enemy bomber wont that dump go under 1K to Battleship..because enemy can totally use his primary turret to hit you when you try to aim at the enemy..and the primary hurt as hell is not even funny...
Capital Ship Point Defense - Jinx - 03-20-2009
the secondary guns are good atm - actually, they are almost identical to the old guns - so they do the job OK. - for smaller battleships.
i have not tested the solaris yet - cause i only have the juggernaut and for that ship - they re not too well suited.
but i happen to agree that the argument that
1 battleship beats 1 bomber
1 battleship + 1 VHF beats 2 bombers
doesn t really work. - bombers are still tough, and if the battleship cannot really really put a lot of REAL pressure on the bombers - its only basicly 1 VHF vs. 2 bombers that can shield run the battleship. - now 2 bombers still have a hard time vs. a battleship, but not cause the ship is so great - but only cause the shield still regenerates at 4.84 rate. ( mostly )
but i also strictly believe that a cruiser / battleship should be BETTER than 2 bombers. - it might die alright... but 2 bombers should be very hard for them - and chances should be LOW to kill it. - like 30% max. .. i would want to actually see those bombers limb home after such a fight if they are equally skilled with the capital ship pilot ( its not always good bombers vs. crappy cap pilots - firing a SN at a cap requires a LOT less skill than firing cap guns at bombers )
now 3 bombers should be 50/50 vs. a single battleship - but the more bombers you add to the calculation, the more the defense of the battleship goes down.
so 1 BS + 5 VHF vs. 6 bombers = still a very dead battleship ... VHF simply need quite some time vs. bombers. - while the DPS of bombers is tremendous.
the flak screen is good vs. nova torpedos - but i doubt that the nova torp will ever replace the supernova as t he bombers primary weapon.
one battleship CAN ruin the game for more than one bomber / fighter - but it doesn t mean that it does. - 2 bombers can ruin the game for 1 battleship - and also ... it doesn t mean that they must do it. - but we consider it good when 2 bombers kill 1 unescorted battleship - and we consider it too powerful when 1 unescorted battleship kills 2 bombers. ( when the same skill is applied )
so i think the point defense still needs some more love.
( have tested some capfights today - and the fights would be PERFECT .... if we only had the nova torp and no supernova - cause flaks ... while not being able to shoot novas down - can confuse their tracking and when the battleship needs to focus on real defense ( firing at novas ) it cannot fire at bombers .. but vs. supernovas... no chance, cause they are simple energy weapons )
if nova torps could be made "unlimited ammo" like supernovas but keep their stats - bomber could still snipe them from afar - but battleships could defend against them. - so it would take a daring bomber to drop them really where they hurt. - supernovas are cheap - the supernova would be great - if it was the SN using ammo ( for all the advantages it has ) and the nova being the one using only energy. - that d be a good balance imo. ( even vs. the current capital ships point defense )
Capital Ship Point Defense - El Nino - 03-20-2009
Well just coming out of an about 1 hour long battle near malta... in my Osiris...
Point defense guns work... well secondaries and razors.
A combination of sustained high damaging barrage will save you a lot of trouble in any situation... Bombers just cannot cope with 90k damage per second from your typical primary/secondary loadout.... If they are unskilled enough to get close they are dead...
Capital Ship Point Defense - Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever - 03-21-2009
Well, osiris is small, Jinx, I love your idea, It woudl balance perfectly and capship weapons would need no changes.
Remove SN, or seriously reduce its damage.
This way, the BS will not have to kill the bomber to win, it will simply have to shoot down the novas.
Capital Ship Point Defense - Muleo - 03-21-2009
' Wrote:Bleh,So what is it you propose? That a single player (battleship) should be able to kill a group of players (bombers)? That somehow, because you traded and spent the money on a big ship, should be able to take on a group of people? You say that bombers are complete crap to fly, then you say bombers kill everything, and you constantly complain that you can't find friends to fly with and protect you? Perhaps some less complaining and more friend-making would do you good.
Again. Ill explain for you of whom are hard of seeing.
ESCORTS!
Is the most unrealistic idea EVER.
You will NEVER have an escort every battle you get in with bombers, Never.
Even if you do, its very rarely because of timezones, If bombers can only be "Discouraged" Whatever that is, since most big battleships can be hit and there is no such thing as "Tactical manuvering" with the big ones.
Others have managed to find escorts for their battleships, if you can't do the same, surely -you- are the problem in this equation?
' Wrote:a BS in this failcake version cannot be whored.If you hate 4.85 so much, do everyone a favor and leave.
Capital Ship Point Defense - Grumblesaur - 03-21-2009
' Wrote:So what is it you propose? That a single player (battleship) should be able to kill a group of players (bombers)? That somehow, because you traded and spent the money on a big ship, should be able to take on a group of people? You say that bombers are complete crap to fly, then you say bombers kill everything, and you constantly complain that you can't find friends to fly with and protect you? Perhaps some less complaining and more friend-making would do you good.
Others have managed to find escorts for their battleships, if you can't do the same, surely -you- are the problem in this equation?
If you hate 4.85 so much, do everyone a favor and leave.
In this particular case, I DO agree with you 100%.