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+--- Thread: Corsair - Zoner (/showthread.php?tid=73664)
Corsair - Zoner - Slavik - 02-06-2012
Lets face it,
I am trying to deal with the issue. I'm trying to keep the NFZ alive, its a lore thing that is there and should work, even if its a bit of work. However as a lone freeport administrator I used to need 3 zoner factions who arent even interested in my base anyway to get a faction right 5 to work and they never seem to agree with eachother.
I can keep my characters perfectly seperated, Freeport 5 has tried and is trying to stay NEUTRAL, it is the marketplace of the area and got dragged into it by others who seem to not understand Freelancer Lore.
This entire situation has escalated into absurd levels where the "roleplay" that is to support this is NO LONGER making sense if you compare it to the lore(with developments yes).
Playing a zoner is not hard, its juggling diplomacy to maintain your independence and your safety. If you make a buck on the side its only good. Zoners all around sirius are not the same, freeport 9 zoners don't like the corsairs but they make sure they don't get blown up. Freeport 10 used to be in conflict with the outcasts but they are neutral now.Freeport 1 only has occasional corsair smugglers drop and has the issue with Bretonia crawling in on their territory. Lets face it both stations are in the same situation, if they don't keep the neighbours on friendly terms they'd be space debris or they are taken over by the authoroties
Corsair - Zoner - spikefin - 02-06-2012
' Wrote:Lets face it,
I am trying to deal with the issue. I'm trying to keep the NFZ alive, its a lore thing that is there and should work, even if its a bit of work. However as a lone freeport administrator I used to need 3 zoner factions who arent even interested in my base anyway to get a faction right 5 to work and they never seem to agree with eachother.
Ohh i support that 100% its the "Faction Blanket" you suggested I don't support.
I don't support that your post indicated your bowing to Corsairs to do this either, The NFZ exists, always has, always will till cannon says otherwise, Its our lore, As you state, It was never an in RP issue like the TBH and council make out.
Its a very clear rule issue(IMO), people playing zoner but ignoring there responsibility's while enjoying there additional allowances.
Theres also the issue of the faction rule specifying the factons must maintain a clear concise and openly available history and current events, Please show me were any faction has this?
Theres also the faction rule that factions must observe the NPC Base of there faction, That means to me.
NPC Corsair dont shoot Zoners, But they do pirate zoners. So hey............
Zoners fire on... wait what, Sit outside a freeport and listen to the NPC comms
Then theres the rule that factions actions must be for the good of ALL factions and actively demonstrate A high standard of RP
Even Corsairs are here indicating that this particular "conflict" is creating a lack of RP and many breaches in Server Individual rules.
Then again, the leader of TBH is an admin, so what ya going to do, apart from go with the flow.
EDIT
Also its not just zoner/corsair RP thats being damaged, Not long ago (week or two) I could sit at a FP and have a couple convo's an hour with random people passing by, Now.. People fly past FP's in the area as fast as they can, no RP. And i don't blame them, one guy did ask how the Corsair situation was going. But thats all, from the substantial amount of people that have past our FP (Going into O-74 i may add)
Corsair - Zoner - Mímir - 02-06-2012
' Wrote:The NFZ exists, always has, always will till cannon says otherwise, Its our lore, As you state[...]
Hey totally unrelated: I was informed by a Freeport Administrator that there is no such thing as a Freeport NFZ, and I'd better just suck it up when I get ganked by Vigilantes/Freelancers within 10K of a Freeport:unsure:
What's the deal?
Edit: Also totally unrelated:
' Wrote:Also its not just zoner/corsair RP thats being damaged, Not long ago (week or two) I could sit at a FP and have a couple convo's an hour with random people passing by, Now.. People fly past FP's in the area as fast as they can, no RP. And i don't blame them, one guy did ask how the Corsair situation was going. But thats all, from the substantial amount of people that have past our FP (Going into O-74 i may add)
Why is that damaging RP? I think it is kinda cool, you know "war drawing nearer, people don't want to get associated with you in fear of becoming involuntary targets (damn Judases!) etc". It adds to atmosphere altough it is unintended and not instigated by your will, no? And couldn't RP be launched off of that?
Corsair - Zoner - spikefin - 02-06-2012
' Wrote:Hey totally unrelated: I was informed by a Freeport Administrator that there is no such thing as a Freeport NFZ, and I'd better just suck it up when I get ganked by Vigilantes/Freelancers within 10K of a Freeport:unsure:
What's the deal?
Edit: Also totally unrelated:
Why is that damaging RP? I think it is kinda cool, you know "war drawing nearer, people don't want to get associated with you in fear of becoming involuntary targets (damn Judases!) etc". It adds to atmosphere altough it is unintended and not instigated by your will, no? And couldn't RP be launched off of that?
Thats correct, some freeport admins claim such things, But its our lore, and zoners ignoring zoner lore is what got us part way here.
As for the RP, No, Non communication can hardly be considered roleplay, Otherwise a oucast could destroy any ship without any communication, claiming his lack of communication is RP because he hates them that much.
AS for launching RP off non communication.. I see your view, and understand it, and ooc I agree, but in Character, Who am I going to role play with if they wont communicate? Even zoners take arms against each other. I just finished watching a zoner take out an outcast that was taking out a Corsair....
Also, if they were that worried, they wouldn't be flying through O-74 and past FP9 and Corsair installations, They simply don't want a bar of it.
I know cause I asked one, He was more worried about sanctions and being blamed for something others did.
But i like your questions and view.
Corsair - Zoner - Alley - 02-06-2012
Some freeport administrator players decided to remove the NFZ from -their- freeport because they couldn't cope with the amount of NFZ breaking reports they were receiving.
They want stuff, but refuse to cope with the responsabilities that come with it.
Although I'll admit that sometimes it was worse than the rule violation reports section.
Corsair - Zoner - Mímir - 02-06-2012
Yeah alright, I understand that. Non-communication does make RP impossible and serves more as a total disrupting factor than an atmosperic one in reality.
Thanks for answering my total off-topic questions, but I really think you ought to coordinate your efforts in a council though - it makes no sense that one FP admin says one thing, and another says another thing - yeah I get it, Zoners are autonomous, but it opens up for metagaming etc. when there is no general code of conduct and superior organ to serve the Zoners as a whole to the extent your different factions can agree. EDIT: I mean with a lack of streamlined communication (for instance which FP's have NFZ's and which doesn't? and so on) it makes it all but impossible to interact with Zoners, unless I spend hours on the forum reading up on how this particular sub-group of Zoners behave in this particular corner of Sirius. It is too much to expect from other people and it just clogs things up unnecessarily. As long as Zoners are one unified body in the repsheet, there should be a somewhat unified Code of Conduct to provide other players a means of understanding and relating to you. Again Zoners act unified when it serves their needs (like an FR5 for someone shooting up a Zoner), but try to act atomized and thus unaccountable when trouble arises, and that just doesn't work. That leads to these bizarre meta-rp situations with no straightforward solutions.
From my perspective - which is not being involved in this in any way but reading the posts with great enthusiasm - this conflict could have been RP'ed out differently that what it is now - a mix of oorp complaining / personal points of views on how other people should have been reacting to your RP and their own backstory mixed with random pewpew vendettas (with a wide assortment of unlikely allies) and raids. It is silly really, as a Zoner-Corsair conflict and the highly relevant question of Zoner neutrality could be an interesting plot conflict all across Sirius, even though it disrupts the plans you have been making. It would open up new possibilites.
Neutrality is a difficult - if not impossible stance - and if diplomacy isn't acted out delicately, this stance cannot be maintained. It is certainly not a stance from where you can launch an aggression or be hardliners in any way. When the results of such actions hit the fan in-RP, it seems - from an outside perspective - that a lot of Zoners resort to OORP forum rage about how things "ought to be" or childish "haha i pew u" threads, and that is a negative development. A ruling body could counter that and find practical solutions to serve both oorp-needs of having a fun time and the ability to choose what kind of RP you want to get involved in, whilst maintaining a diplomatic RP balance with other houses and factions to allow for that.
EDIT: I have been reading those Zoner warmongering posts as well, and I would probably be inclined to act out this conflict like that if I had a Zoner Juggernaut and all, but how the hell is one supposed to consider Zoners as a neutral faction after that???
EDIT 2: Much like the Junker Congress - from what I read - have done theirs to get junkers to fall in line and adhere to a few basic common rules, while still keeping the door open to both lawful and unlawful junkers, you could have a similar governing body that does what it can not to infringe on your individual options and style of RP. It's hard work and requires a lot of attention to convince people within the Zoner community to fall in line, but if your bases and the diplomatic ties you rest your overall faction on is at stake, this seems like the only viable in-RP solution, contrary to a "let's just forget about the whole thing and go back to where we were so we can all have our own fun again" oorp-style solution.
Corsair - Zoner - spikefin - 02-06-2012
' Wrote:Yeah alright, I understand that. Non-communication does make RP impossible and serves more as a total disrupting factor than an atmosperic one in reality.
Thanks for answering my total off-topic questions, but I really think you ought to coordinate your efforts in a council though
Wont catch me disagreeing, Im my view, Which people may share or not, We have the making of a great group, We just have to meet in the middle.
Im a roaming zoner, Im not tied down, and don't want to be. But, As a zoner i understand that there's a price for my freedoms.
As such recently I was seen hanging about FP9 and informing people of the docking lockdown for all non-zoners issued by TAZ.
In my opinion, Zoners need to be zoners, but we need an administration to sometimes kick our butt, It also makes sence, That that administration would have a "Diplo subgroup" group, A "Militant subgroup" group, A "Trading subgroup" group
So lets just say we took my zoner tag
".:Z:." Indie, Acknowledges and abides by "Council"
".:Z:.Trans" Zoner Transport Official Division part of the council (OSI)
".:Z:.Milt" Zoner Military Branch part of council ((]o[)) (Zoner Defenders, FP protectors, Zoner Gaurd it was called back in the day)
".:Z:.Diplo Zoner Diplomats part of the council (Taz)
".:Z:.Admin Zoner Council
First up, a zoner tag really should be obvious to all hence why my ship is .:Z:. tagged, Havnt had anyone flee from me thinking i was something i wasn't or attack under a incorrect pretence, Even from accross the system.
I even get the newbie whispers "Are you a zoner" And im able to help were i can, I can see why a pirate shouldn't be this obvious. But a zoner...
Second up I just made up those tags, I don't suggest they are it, Just that the common naming link should be used and it should be obvious to almost everyone, that we are a zoner we have nothing to hide.
Using this sort of council would IMO render this situation non-existant, The .:Z:.Milt was in charge of protecting FP and failed, council responds somehow, .:Z:.Milt finds a way through with the diplo help of taz.
Obviously, This is basicly what we once had, by another name, And corsairs didn't like it (So im told)
Also, When i was a zoner, Long time ago (Still indie) You ask a zoner the law at a FP and he knew it.
Firing in 14km of FP = BAD
Hovering at FP for more than 5 minutes = BAD this includes dock/undock/dock
Runnig to FP after sheilds reduced to 50% = BAD if attacker still in 14km range
Even as a zoner, I was frequently sent away from freeports because i was idling to long.
At least thats the ones i knew, why did i know this? How did they enforce it? It was simple
SS or it didn't happen
Every ship can see a player at 14k, when you engage, gun cam it at 50% sheild reduction, If the dude runs SS it as he enters NFZ.
So if on your scanner FP1 is 23km away and your chasing a guy (PlayerX) straight for FP1 (Can see FP's at 23km usually or keep chasing closer, you both have same cruise)
If PlayerX who is on your scanner is 10km ahead of you... This means playerX is in NFZ take screenshot.
It wasn't that hard really, From what i saw, Back then. Since i was indie, I only dealt with it when i saw what happened anyway.
From memory, If you open your nav map, select zone of influence, 14km is the default FP zone displayed on map as well.
A player getting attacked in NFZ, Dosn't matter if it started 3 systems ago, The attacker can and should file paperwork, NFZ's are about the protection of our people Hes firing, He is guilty as well never was any excuse or tolerance.
Black and white.
The claim, Weather true or not, founded or unfounded. Is that raiders were launching from and returning to FP, The only founded way for Corsairs to know this, is if they followed them back, That would mean Guncam images should have been taken, and rules followed.
I don't know if they were or wern't.
And the last thing i remember from my zoner days, If you posted the report wrong (Ie 500 pages of text, 20 SS or 50 people comming into comment on same thing no time stamps.
"Request denied! Fill out the correct paperwork"
2 Screen-shots was nearly all it ever took.
/set chattime <on/off>
I think that was the important server command.
EDIT: Maybe a constructive Corsair can tell me why the old way wasn't any good. I left and it seemed fine (I know it was pre Galia) Came back and ....
Corsair - Zoner - lousal - 02-06-2012
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Corsair - Zoner - spikefin - 02-06-2012
' Wrote:Lore? Sure, it's hard to tell what Zoner Lore is when actually everybody regards it from his/her own perspective which is very often the case for Zoners, but I wouldn't really call the NFZ concept lore today.
I thought the same once: It must be lore, at least a rp standard for the Zoner NPC Faction. The Zoner Leaders I met when starting to work for the ZTC were all referring to the NFZ as a kind of Zoner Laws. Strangely though I was part of the little group writing it up for the first time, just because it happened that there wasn't anything written down when I've asked where the NFZ was initially established in forum rp. The players I've asked should have known it, because they've played Zoners for years more than I had, so it was actually a shame there wasn't anything about it on the forums one could refer to. Perhaps only just a little faux-pas, so for a long time I have never bothered with the importance of NFZs. I was convinced to help enforcing "Zoner Lore".
A long time later I was taught otherwise: Initially the NFZ was introduced at FP11 and only used there because of the special situation of the Order facing the BHG, an ally and a faction who's staging off from Freeports lore wise, a good reason for the NFZ, so this supposed part of Zoner Lore might actually be none.
... if it helps.
Nice, but inconsise, When I was a zoner, Some people with more time and love for such things followed Faction rules. (I mean more time and love i had for such things, not a personal attack **Smiles**)
There was a history post for NFZ's just like Nomads and wilde had lore and lore adaptations, unfortuantly, the old forum links no longer work
No one nowadays seems to care about faction rules. The responsibilities of the factions. The transparency of RP. Or if they do, they hide the posts in the back room, Even some admins admit that they conduct private rp for actions that effect a large chunk of the server, then tell people to read the ooc posts to catch up.
When the admins wont play fair, what hope do the players have, accept to run around like chickens with no heads.
"I was part of the little group writing it up for the first time" Just saw that part, you wrote in the zoner lore? All i find of lore now-a-days is the wiki NPC lore. It's a bore compared to the original player elaborations, How those posts disappeared, I never should have gone away, or at least used a web spider on the forums before leaving to back everything up.
Im still a little confused about that forum part, Because these forums were around, but large amounts of official business was conducted elsewhere.
http://discoveryfl.com/ Im pretty sure it was.
I cant for the life of me remember 100%
EDIT:
The worst part, I was once probably the single worst RP'r on the server, I had many sanctions for small accedents (Yes that's right i typed : ) and l o l in system chat and got a 2 day holiday)
Someone actually said to me the other day "Wow you have a strong voice and are good at roleplay, that's why those corsairs left you alone."
That was while i was 3km's away from crete with a hold full of artifacts, a small chunk of food some water and about 15 corsair guns, In a fearless cruiser. Then i followed around a bunch of corsairs including a battleship while they patrolled and did quests. 48 hours ago.
That's really really sad to me, that anyone would ever think I was good at RP.
Im more used to the "//nice try, Youll get it" type attitude of former days.
Corsair - Zoner - lousal - 02-06-2012
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