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+--- Thread: 'Taxing-Agreement'? (/showthread.php?tid=10074)
'Taxing-Agreement'? - MrCynical - 07-08-2008
Not sure I'm comfortable with charging independent traders double that of faction ID'd traders (sounds a bit like trying to grief people who don't play the way you want them to), but other than that this looks like a great idea. To be honest there are two problems with pirate-trader RP here:
*Pirates demanding ludicrous sums, more than the entire value of the cargo. Earth (or Manhattan, if you like) to pirates: any trader worth his salt has his ship insured, so all he stands to lose from having it destroyed is whatever he had in the hold.
*Traders who ignore demands for fairly small amounts of money (e.g. 50 or 100k from a transport full of diamonds). Your aim as a trader (in-RP , even if you don't care OORP) is to maximise your profit - if by refusing to pay that 100k tax, you end up losing cargo worth 3 million, you're not a very good trader.
'Taxing-Agreement'? - Stucuk - 07-08-2008
' Wrote:Why is Stucuk trying to make a pirates life more difficult than it already is?
You may want to note that Stucuk isn't in agreement with more rules. So Stucuk doesn't see how he is "trying to make a pirates life more difficult". Stucuk just doesn't think Pirate RP is upto much when people just go "2 million or Die", but he doesn't support any rules to restrict pirates.
'Taxing-Agreement'? - n00bl3t - 07-09-2008
' Wrote:There is no rule on taxing, fining and thats how will it always remain.
its up to pirate / faction / police.
I got taxed 8mil and all my artifacts destroyed when i went trough RM space. Alot of people would pretty much rather die then.
face it, its all about rp. If you don't value your life 5mil when a pirate asks you, i'ld feel pretty ashamed after i hit that respawn button.
It's stupid to ask more than 2 million. It seriously is.
I'd SS it and report it as PVP-whoring behaviour. Simple.
'Taxing-Agreement'? - jimmy Patterson - 07-09-2008
' Wrote://post has been updated (D)/(E1,E2)
GoodDay community,...
Maybe we should think about a new, Sirius-wide agreement from the official Pirate/Unlawfull Factions about how many money is asked for while a taxing...
My thoughts on that:
A: a trader, pretty new, with a Civilian ID and a small ship (above lvl30)
- when taxing!!!, a small amount of up to 5% of the cargo in hold
B: a trader, with Trader ID and medium sized to large transports
- a amount up to 50% of the cargo hold, as a gerneric trader ID normally means, the full profit of the trading runs is for the traders income
C: a trader, with a Faction ID (like RGS, IC, Gateway, Kishiro, Samura, ALG,... etc)
- a amount belonging to the ships size and up to 25% of the cargo in hold, as a factions ID means, the trader is just an employee and coulnt hold his traded profit all for his alone.
A trader carrying a Faction ID (with proper ship, IFF, some acceptable rp) should have a chance to obtain a "Pirates License", saving him from being pirated by this faction for a brief time.
- maybe up to 15mill for 12hours passage
- ONLY FOR FACTION TRADERS
Independent traders (generic Trader ID) could be taxed everytime they cross the pirates way, without a chance for the "Pirates License"
//edit:
D: Traders using any kind of ID (Civilian, Trader, Faction) hauling stuff through a guard system without permission from system-owning Faction are KoS WITHOUT WARNING
//edit:
E1: Traders using any kind of ID using smileys or any other, as it is called 'oorp/ooc' (like;)/:P/ u for you / thx, pls for thanks, please / lol, rofl and such) in system chat before, while and after the demand was made by the pirate are KoS AFTER A WARNING
E2: Pirates using smileys or any other, as it is called 'oorp/ooc' (like;)/:P/ u for you / thx, pls for thanks, please / lol, rofl and such) in system chat before, while and after the demand was made by the pirate is to be reported to the pirates faction leaders and fined by his faction
I think, if "Unlawfull-Factions" will agree, we could get some better RP to all the Traders out there, which just runs for making money for their capital ships.
So we can stress up the 'Hardcore-Powertrader' and give the Faction-Traders a better reponse to their hard work outside in space...
I would like to have all "Unlawfull-Factions" Leaders or their spokesmen to share their thoughts on that...
(//please to all others; no spam, no senseless posts and no 'kindergarten', no trials in this tpoic)
Regards
im not in any faction(save for uog)and my trader is jimmy pattewrson(yes same that runs the gunboat niagara falls) i could never afford this it sounds like you just want people to join factions and while thats good all the lawful ones seem to restrictive/i dont have the skil lto get outta a fighter and i suck in fighters
'Taxing-Agreement'? - El Nino - 07-09-2008
' Wrote:It's stupid to ask more than 2 million. It seriously is.
I'd SS it and report it as PVP-whoring behaviour. Simple.
Hell, I agree with Ivan, about this one, How much do you value your life... Is your life worth only what your cargo is worth, or is it 50$ more, you can insure your cargo but saying that that insures your life is rather pointless... what are you gonna do with insurance money if you're dead...
For true roleplayers, there should be a limit (probably at about 25 to 50M) where their life becomes worth risking, and even then, only if the pirate was in a gunboat, not a bomber, so they could have a resonable chance,... otherwise paying up, everything they have might be open...
When you're coming down with 9M worth of niobium inside new berlin already, can you afford a let's say redicules 5M tax, yes you can, it makes sense to pay..(unless you can't get away). But on the same place with dimonds it isn't much sense to pay 3M... In the 5M case you still make good profit, except perhaps not good powertrader like profit...
Taxes become oorp at about 10M, no faction trader should have this kind of money on him.... but independants?
Say you're flying an Adv. Train, thats 130M of your private company right there, One can expect that you easily have more than 20M on hand for expenses, investment in good routes and such... So Indie traders can be taxed a bit more than faction traders... as they are owners, not just employes.
Thereby from now on all my pirates will tax 2-3M for factions, and 4-5M Indies...:yahoo:
Ultimate goal should be taxing so much that it becomes viable for traders to hire escorts, wich i'd very like to see...
'Taxing-Agreement'? - jimmy Patterson - 07-09-2008
thats the thing theres hardly any on whern i am and when you think about it your fees should be reversed most factions would normally cover expenses and such indies have to as the owner take care of it all themselfs
'Taxing-Agreement'? - chovynz - 07-09-2008
' Wrote:You may want to note that Stucuk isn't in agreement with more rules. So Stucuk doesn't see how he is "trying to make a pirates life more difficult". Stucuk just doesn't think Pirate RP is upto much when people just go "2 million or Die", but he doesn't support any rules to restrict pirates.
Sorry. I was under the impression you didnt want pirates to tax traders either, from some of your other posts.
I agree that RP "Sux" when someone goes "2mil or Die". I disagree on some of your other posts, in that I think we should tax traders, empty traders, or whatever else. I would take someones shoes and ship if FL mechanics let me. I'm a thieving, dirty criminal pirate. I want my loot.
'Taxing-Agreement'? - jimmy Patterson - 07-09-2008
' Wrote:Sorry. I was under the impression you didnt want pirates to tax traders either, from some of your other posts.if the game or roleplay allowed that then a new id could be made a "Privateers ID" we al lknow what that means heh he"hey you purple beard..remember me *shows up in a gunboat*id like my shoes cargo and 10 mill back....... "
I agree that RP "Sux" when someone goes "2mil or Die". I disagree on some of your other posts, in that I think we should tax traders, empty traders, or whatever else. I would take someones shoes and ship if FL mechanics let me. I'm a thieving, dirty criminal pirate. I want my loot.
'Taxing-Agreement'? - Xydonus - 07-09-2008
' Wrote:For true roleplayers, there should be a limit (probably at about 25 to 50M) where their life becomes worth risking, and even then, only if the pirate was in a gunboat, not a bomber, so they could have a resonable chance,... otherwise paying up, everything they have might be open...
Saying that, would you pay up 25 to 50 million for the sake of role-play? An honest answer from me would be, no. How many runs would I have to do again to regain that loss. Infact, in all reality, lets face it, any pirate in a police system who is camping a trade-lane/JH and asks for 25 to 50 mill is going to be considered OORP... Handing over 25 to 50 million should be considered a retirement package for any would be trade lane camping pirate in any system, especially the police systems. Even 10 million is fairly high, and does that include passage for 2 or more hours?
In my opinion, and general role-play correctness, any pirate character should only tax to what they feel their character is entitled to tax, to how much he needs the money and whether or not he is going to get 9/10 traders paying up. If you have all the pirates in sirius, demanding 2+ million credits, then you have alot of rich pirates if you take in account of how much trading goes on.
Too many pirate characters who are doing the same thing with capital ships. Soon as they get that ID, they might aswell go for the big one's... In this case, soon as they get that Pirate ID, camp a lane, they feel they need to tax a high amount to make it worthwhile for not trading or they do it RP-Wise, and not understanding exactly where their character comes from and thier ship.
There's also a quote here from the above post stating "Ultimate goal should be taxing so much that it becomes viable for traders to hire escorts, which i'd very like to see..." Now, theres a problem with that, because I feel its the other way around. Out of 10, how many do you think are going to pay up with demands to hand over 3 mill+?
Lets consider this, your taking a trader's hard earned money, 3 mill might not seem alot compared to what he may profit, at least to you, but to the trader, a 3 mill loss on a 4 jump system journey is going to hurt. Out of 10, how many will pay up? Because from what I've seen, some won't even pay 2 mill, even 500k... Although I consider it ooc if a trader can't get away and refuse's to pay for something as low as 500k... And again, there's quite a few out there who would rather take a loss on their RP rep than to pay up 3 mill, even if they can't escape and lose the whole lot.
I certainly do wish though that traders make more use of escorts, as it seems to be a dying business at times. And only way to do that is for active piracy and decent piracy to come through. Low-fee and low-risk demands in my opinion would make more money for the pirate considering he has better odd's that the trader will pay up, but most likely they will high a merc. Doubt someone is going to hire a merc after paying 3+ mill, and I seriously doubt someone is going to use that route again if not only your taxing high amounts, but not offering right of passage. And if someone is offering right of passage, why bother hire a merc?
So more escorts I reckon will happen if no right of passage is given and low-risk demands are directed at the traders, otherwise, I'd choose another route or hire a merc if I didn't take a huge loss.
In anycase, end of the day, everyone is entitled to tax whatever they want as long as its not a mad stupid amount.
Also, anyone who doesn't tax an empty trader is wrong to start stating that its ooc. For heavensake, your a PIRATE! If I walk down a street, guy comes up with a knife, tells me to hand over my wallet and I tell him, wha? Don't have it with me... Chance's are he will ask for my lovely watch that is currently wrapped around my hand, and my mobile too! It's an RP Server, your playing a pirate, you thirsty for money, and unless your incredibly nice for a pirate, why in gods name are you going to let an empty trader pass through who may indeed be on his way to make a profit elsewhere, and not only that but is sure to have a nice fat juicy wallet with him!...
So this "I ain't taxing an empty pirate because its not nice, I get ranted at and its not good role-play" lark is nonsence. Pirates are prepared and should be to take personal items and financial assets regardless of cargo. Hostile NPC's show no mercy, so why should you? But do keep the amounts reasonable and not outlandish...
In true RP piracy, a pirate would most likely strip the trader bare off all his profits. You don't get nice pirates in the likes of EVE-Online, but here, you do, and because of that "Nice" piracy which is a current trend, you'l never get full RP piracy, which is fine by me in anycase, and thus, you'l never get true Trader RP, but you should always try and walk that line that allows you to at least pirate in comfortable role-playing fashion.
'Taxing-Agreement'? - Dusty Lens - 07-09-2008
Ugh, I'd have to fly with a tax lawyer just to figure out what to do.
Long story short:
Pirating for more than 20% of what they're going to make is entering the riskzone of getting nothing.
Pirating more than the cargo costs to buy it over again is entering the riskzone of getting nothing.
Demanding they drop their cargo nets a 90% chance that you'll just get a fight, based on personal experience.
Demanding they give you fifty million credits or you'll reduce their ship to its base components can, and has, been translated as simply looking for incentive to blow folks up.