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+--- Thread: Trade Bug Reports and Requests (/showthread.php?tid=104893)
RE: 4.87 Economy balances reports - Moberg - 09-17-2013
(09-15-2013, 11:31 PM)Pavel Wrote: ==============
Gate Parts from Bonn to Solarius
==============
That route is efficient at 44k credits per second in 5ker, 4.5 times better than standard routes. OP as hell.
Generally many trade routes are OP now, making mining practically obsolete, just check in FL companion.
I think this is because the Gate Parts occupy 1 cargo unit only, giving you 4000x5000 = 20 000 000 credits profit on a 5k transport.
Making the Gate Parts occupy a cargo space of 3-5 would put the trade route to a 'normal' level.
4000 = profit gained for buying the parts for ~16k at Bonn and selling it for ~20k at Solarius, which are roughly 5 minutes apart from each other.
5000 = cargo space of a 5k transport
RE: 4.87 Economy balances reports - Mephistoles - 09-17-2013
It's just a minor oversight. Jump gate parts prices are clearly balanced to be equivalent to trade lane parts, but their volume wasn't increased to five in the same way to compensate. Probably already fixed for the next patch.
RE: Trade Bug Reports and Requests - Tabris - 09-17-2013
Well I am concerned with the ULTRA-High price of H-Fuel in Omega-52 at Sevastopol Depot, a facility DEDICATED to the gathering of H-Fuel from Tbilisi below using it's stolen GMG Gas-Miner. Some of this fuel is used by the Coalition while some is sent to it's closest allies (Mollys/Hessians) while any remaining stocks is put into storage on the depot itself.
I'm not asking for a 100 Credit Buy, just a slight adjustment to better fit the RP of the facility. Remember not many people can actually GO to Omega-52 and BUY goods there, just a small amount of individuals such as the Hessians, trusted Zoners and the occasional Volgograd Industrial Transport.
RE: 4.87 Economy balances reports - Siegfried - 09-17-2013
(09-17-2013, 07:36 PM)Mephistoles Wrote: It's just a minor oversight. Jump gate parts prices are clearly balanced to be equivalent to trade lane parts, but their volume wasn't increased to five in the same way to compensate. Probably already fixed for the next patch.
^ This. It's true that they take up 5 (if anything the trade should weigh less than gate due to complications of the devices, but still, 5 is acceptable)
If gate parts aren't 5 in the next patch... Then something is very wrong.
RE: Trade Bug Reports and Requests - djordje_petrovic - 09-18-2013
AETERNUS, regarding Wupertall rafinery issue, can you put full account of commodities avalible (and with description if possible) that we can propose some ideas while playing.
One more thingie basic alloys in its name means they are basic, and whats basci should be accesible and cheap in all houses. With much bigger price of alloys and buffed up common trade routes it is hard to involve POB bases in trading as import expenditures + mining payments doesnt leave space for profitable run by selling ores for those who wanna haul it away , cause it can be made similar profit with all other stuff which doesnt bind you to trading in specific locations. That will turn POBS in self propeeled self sufficient credit farms without communing and binding factions together with diplomatic and economic relations. Solution : buff up ores as you buff up trade , as trading commodities are NPC generated , and ores are RP generated source and should be more desirable .
But one good option how to promote commodity trading via RP is to give back Barges jumping abilities, give them 2 percent agility boost maybe and most important ---> 1. cant dock on bases except HQ, without RP initiated agreement . 2. Can dock on POB bases only , excluding base supply runs for FOW and alloys.
They should be imployed not as mean of powertrading but swapping distant goods in big quantities in domicile environment where they are cheap to location where their reseling is lucrative and offering local merchants to ressel them and harvest good profit. That is way how to put RP diplomacy and trade into the context of Sirius demand market for many different commodities (NPC generated and not only RP ores)
RE: Trade Bug Reports and Requests - Karst - 09-18-2013
(09-17-2013, 04:26 PM)Karst Wrote: There's already a thread for this, can they be merged?
[quote='Karst' pid='1408382' dateline='1379348286']
==============
ALG
==============
Okay, going to focus on the results of preliminary ALG trade testing.
ALG lost High-Temperature alloy from Wuppertal, Nuclear devices from Helgoland, and mining machinery from Dortmund while gaining nothing new in the process.
Helgoland has been effectively replaced by Neu Augsburg as a scrapping operation (the scrap field isn't actually activated, I'm assuming it will be)
However, is there a reason why nuclear devices were simply moved out of ALG production?
Neu Augsburg produces toxic waste, which makes sense, but nothing else.
All three bases have a similar issue: they import a huge variety of goods, but export almost nothing.
This does not make sense given what they are: industrial facilities, refineries and smelters.
It is particularly noticeable with Wuppertal.
It offers high or even top prices for everything from Basic Alloy and Bio-neural processors, to Yttrium and Zinc and yet it only produces MazMat canisters.
With such a variety of imports, you'd expect it to produce a greater variety of goods as well, specifically alloys and various industrial goods.
Another thing that seems strange is scrap metal: ALG collect scrap, but apparently don't process it: why is scrap metal sold on shipyards rather than a smelter?
Suggestion: Move a scrap metal sell point to Dortmund rather than Oder.
Aet: Offer some suggestions for what they should be selling then? Manifolds, maybe, will need to see if that fits with the economy.
No changes made. Further input needed.
Okay then, let me elaborate a bit.
I'd like Ship Hull Panels to be re-added to Dortmund, and this time at a competitive price.
To quote an ALG NPC in the bar:
"ALG ship hull panels supply the civilian shipyards in Hamburg, Honshu, and New York [outdated]. Our only competitor is Stokes Smelter in Leeds [and Kyushu]. BMM is using outdated production methods that are less cost-effective than ours, so we are confident that ALG will soon own all of this market"
Aside from that, with the other two sell points being in the far west of Sirius, it would make sense to have another in that region.
As for scrap: Shipyards produce it as a byproduct of ship production. -Smelters- buy it for reprocessing. Scrap metal is basically industrial and construction waste.
That is exactly my point: Shipyards should if anything, be exporting scrap, not importing it, but right now Alster and Oder will pay decent prices for scrap while none of the ALG bases will pay anything at all.
Thus my suggestion of having Dortmund, rather than Oder, import scrap.
As a consequence of that, Dortmund could export Manifolds - to function as a Smelter, as it should.
MOX production meanwhile should be shifted to Wuppertal - it's my understanding that MOX is made by processing Toxic Waste, which has moved from Dortmund to Wuppertal.
Generally, it would make sense to have Dortmund, as a smelter focus on metallurgic products, and Wuppertal, as a refinery, focus on chemical products.
Not entirely sure why High-Temperature alloy was removed, both infocards still mention it. Under the suggested setup, it would make more sense to move it to Dortmund.
Some more suggestions for Wuppertal exports: Hydrocarbons/Petrochemicals/Plastics. I think it's fair to assume that a great proportion of toxic waste is made up of hydrocarbon-based compounds, so the extraction and processing thereof would make sense for a refinery.
Nuclear devices - we had these before, and it would make sense to have the plant that processes toxic waste use the radioactive waste they process to produce new reactors (along with MOX). Given that these are very complex devices, it would also explain some of the huge variety of imports the station receives.
I'll leave it at that for now, maybe I'll think of some more stuff. Thank you for your time.
RE: Trade Bug Reports and Requests - Karst - 09-18-2013
(09-16-2013, 05:18 PM)Karst Wrote: ==============
ALG
==============
Okay, going to focus on the results of preliminary ALG trade testing.
ALG lost High-Temperature alloy from Wuppertal, Nuclear devices from Helgoland, and mining machinery from Dortmund while gaining nothing new in the process.
Helgoland has been effectively replaced by Neu Augsburg as a scrapping operation (the scrap field isn't actually activated, I'm assuming it will be)
However, is there a reason why nuclear devices were simply moved out of ALG production?
Neu Augsburg produces toxic waste, which makes sense, but nothing else.
All three bases have a similar issue: they import a huge variety of goods, but export almost nothing.
This does not make sense given what they are: industrial facilities, refineries and smelters.
It is particularly noticeable with Wuppertal.
It offers high or even top prices for everything from Basic Alloy and Bio-neural processors, to Yttrium and Zinc and yet it only produces MazMat canisters.
With such a variety of imports, you'd expect it to produce a greater variety of goods as well, specifically alloys and various industrial goods.
Another thing that seems strange is scrap metal: ALG collect scrap, but apparently don't process it: why is scrap metal sold on shipyards rather than a smelter?
Suggestion: Move a scrap metal sell point to Dortmund rather than Oder.
Aet: Offer some suggestions for what they should be selling then? Manifolds, maybe, will need to see if that fits with the economy.
No changes made. Further input needed.
Okay then, let me elaborate a bit.
I'd like Ship Hull Panels to be re-added to Dortmund, and this time at a competitive price.
To quote an ALG NPC in the bar:
"ALG ship hull panels supply the civilian shipyards in Hamburg, Honshu, and New York [outdated]. Our only competitor is Stokes Smelter in Leeds [and Kyushu]. BMM is using outdated production methods that are less cost-effective than ours, so we are confident that ALG will soon own all of this market"
Aside from that, with the other two sell points being in the far west of Sirius, it would make sense to have another in that region.
As for scrap: Shipyards produce it as a byproduct of ship production. -Smelters- buy it for reprocessing. Scrap metal is basically industrial and construction waste.
That is exactly my point: Shipyards should if anything, be exporting scrap, not importing it, but right now Alster and Oder will pay decent prices for scrap while none of the ALG bases will pay anything at all.
Thus my suggestion of having Dortmund, rather than Oder, import scrap.
As a consequence of that, Dortmund could export Manifolds - to function as a Smelter, as it should.
MOX production meanwhile should be shifted to Wuppertal - it's my understanding that MOX is made by processing Toxic Waste, which has moved from Dortmund to Wuppertal.
Generally, it would make sense to have Dortmund, as a smelter focus on metallurgic products, and Wuppertal, as a refinery, focus on chemical products.
Not entirely sure why High-Temperature alloy was removed, both infocards still mention it. Under the suggested setup, it would make more sense to move it to Dortmund.
Some more suggestions for Wuppertal exports: Hydrocarbons/Petrochemicals/Plastics. I think it's fair to assume that a great proportion of toxic waste is made up of hydrocarbon-based compounds, so the extraction and processing thereof would make sense for a refinery.
Nuclear devices - we had these before, and it would make sense to have the plant that processes toxic waste use the radioactive waste they process to produce new reactors (along with MOX). Given that these are very complex devices, it would also explain some of the huge variety of imports the station receives.
I'll leave it at that for now, maybe I'll think of some more stuff. Thank you for your time.
Edit: Double post, oopsies
RE: Trade Bug Reports and Requests - DeathsOverture - 09-19-2013
Quick kudos for all the hard work on the new commodities. There are more trade routes than EVER!
Here are a few I posted in the bug thread...
- H-Fuel to Battleship Nagasaki is too profitable, looks like it was balanced before the base was moved to Tau-29. The same issue could apply to other commodities as well. Edit: Yeah it does, Sake is ridiculous from Planet New Tokyo.
- H-Fuel to Ryuku from Fujisawa is too profitable, looks like it was balanced before the JH to Nagano in Okinawa was changed to Tohoku.
- Gold from Battleship Castres, Edinburgh has crazy profitability. It almost looks like the BS was moved before balance and the moved back... It makes for a crazy two-way route with Gold going to Kyushu, and Rice back to Islay and food Rations to Battleship Castres.. not sure what faction would actually be able to run that one, though.
- Light Arms from Palemo Base, Eta to O-85 Dreadnought Captana will net a quick 664 profit for a relatively easy route that takes a little over 2 minutes. There's no return commodity though, so I suppose that makes it balanced enough. It looks like the Sigma-19 JH was changed to O85 some time between 4.86 and 4.87 so I thought I'd mention it here.
RE: 4.87 Economy balances reports - Mephistoles - 09-19-2013
Gate parts are fixed and now take up five cargo space each.
RE: Trade Bug Reports and Requests - GrnRaptor - 09-19-2013
Java Station's infocard says it processes and refines both Niobium and Beryllium, however the base only sells Niobium. Additionally Freeport 10 buys Beryllium at around 2k/unit. I'm not sure if it's an oversight, but it would make sense for Java to sell refined Beryllium as well at a reasonable price and adjust the buy/sell accordingly. Either that or fix the infocard.