(01-25-2014, 07:15 PM)... kur nubėgo? Wrote: 1. Economic argument. Additional income, you don't have to use specific product to be able to make profit out of it. You may be just middle man who hauls or delivers the product and profit from commision. For corsairs to make money out of others missfortune is not a moral problem.

You may argue against it that corsairs do not have resources to spare to sustain the slaves durning their trip, but it's not an issue as sairs can make use of slaves who already died in a form of human organs. And sell those. Technicly, it would make sense for corsairs to import slaves, slaughter them and make money out of it. This way denying availability of the resource to their enemies and thus profiting themselves.

a, how about ransomning those that are worthy? much better value for less effort for those who are worth it
b, you have no idea about organs, do you? you do not want to have an organ of a drug addicted, malnourished, sick person in you and you won't find buyers for them - so if you get a "fresh passsenger liner" no need to take slaves - take hostages, take organs,. done. less trouble, more pesetos.


2. Moral counter argument. Corsairs do not have compassion for humans per say. But only to their own kin and yet, not very significant even within the context of their own nation. Corsairs do not have problems with damaging well-being of others for their own sake, or even killing someone for some resources. From this perspective it makes little sense for corsairs to be feel compassion for enslaved person of other nation than their own. This do reminds me of bronze/iron age jewish slavery laws. While slavery of your fellow tribesman was not encouraged, but you could do whatever you want with a person of other tribe.
It is not compassion but their ego and personal fame/infamy you gain by either being brutal and slaughtering your prey, being strong enough to let them run to spread your frightful presence(and not suffer from the backfire of freed enemies)

Anyway, if you would argue that sairs are someone who values personal freedom above life, when what's your problem with slaves being imported and when put to death? In such moralistic point of view you are doing a favour for enslaved. And technicly it's less of a crime than to kill freeman in order to profit from it, because here, you free salves from their horrible fate by act of murder.
And i say the corsair warlord shows "mercy" by letting his enemies die instead taking away that last dirty puddle of honor they posess, hoarding more fame to his name by doing so

3. Social argument. We can agree that corsair society is not as developed as lets say Liberty's. I mean with organized goverment, liberal democracy and human rights stuff. It's more of a tribe - family based society with caste like influences. (some families are concidered to be noble or higher marely by the fact of 'certain' bloodline). And if we would look back at history, such societies relied on slave based economy without much problems.
Sorry, but this is not true for all such "historic" examples, also - if you want that go play outcast - the sairs should not be outcasts mk II

4. Political / Ideological argument. This would have more to do with corsair supremacy thing. It's not a secret, that corsairs are very xenophobic people and feels etitled or more worthy than person of any other house. This does justify usage of slaves of other houses as moral, as typical corsair wouldn't concider a human of other house to be subject to corsair moral code.
So xenophobics are well known for bringing foreigners in? What happed to your local labour?

Curretly only counter argument which is has proper weight is.. where do corsairs would ship those slaves? Well I think that there is always underground market for them please go and find me some slave usersthat are NOT sworn enemies to the corsairs. Some junkers would trade in them, some others wouldn't ...and sell em to whom, exactly?). But even if this is right, importing slaves for the sake of harvesting organs is a point which this counter argument fails to address.


Corsairs do not want to support Outcast regime while getting involved with slavery. Another point being presented here. Well first of all, there is no such thing as Outcast - Corsair war
good to know! . It's rather small skirmishes between the zone of influences in sigmas or edge worlds. While devs attempted to introduce this into the game with Omicon Eta, all this war idea suffered a fiasko. Because of few things: ZoI of sairs and outcasts clashes in only few systems and second is absent of pragmatic reasons for the war If you count the empty omegas and rheinland out , the complete rest of the corsair ZOI is within the outcat zoi, which is about half of sirius. 3rd in vanilla lore there are hints, that corsair - outcast war is more of an echo of the past rather than burning conflict at current time. Corsairs should be more concentrated on real war front with hessians and raids on bretonia than anything else That is yourpersonal opinion. Indirectly supporting a group of other hispanians with whom they do not meet as much or fight can be accepted as coleteral damage for greater good in a sense.
So you mean those dudes who sabotage our shipments at minimum? Those who siege us i eta? those who ally up with the bretons?those who threaten ourmarkets and innocent youths with drugs? The outcasts are a threat on multiple layers and an antithesis to the corsairs - we show our nice xenophobic nature by banishing everything outcastish as heretics stuff and whatnot! + the outcastsare allied with all our enemies(minus the hessians since 1-2 mod versions)

But if you argue that outcasts are a seriuos problem, again, this fails to address import of slaves and human organ harvesting:
1) profits can be had without overthrowing everything the sairs stand for
2) removes part of the resources avaliable for the outcasts on the market, thus weakening their power. you mean....every passenger liner we don't enslave is enslaved by casts? how about butchering the slavers and staying on the easier side with OSC, so they let us STICK AROUND ON THEIR FRIGGIN LINERS ? Or ow about butchering those slavers and setting those slaves free/ransoming them?


Now I would be also intrested in that news report about slavery abolishment, could anyone qoute it for me, I would be greatful, because at the current state all this "Sairs hate slavery" doesn't seem to make any sense.dig em up yourself in a boring minute Even if it is currently player developed lore, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be questioned. If it doesn't make any sense - it doesn't. thing is, it does



I want to play corsairs as cruel, hardy people. And yes, you do have problem with me, than someone pulls out nonsense straight out of nowhere and tries to enforce it onto me, even when it does collide with original corsair lore.
Do it, be cruel, be hardy - just get creative...if you must, ransom those poor transport captains back to interspace or whatever and keep an arm of them as trophy/dinner if you think that improves your rp. Don't try to get all evil deeds available in disco into one faction - if you want slaves, go and take a look at everything from outcast to zoners, but don't greywash factions that are sharpening their profile with such nonsense


TLR - then don't bother to answer if you can't counter these arguments. Or atleast explain why they are void.