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+--- Thread: Zoner ID line addition (/showthread.php?tid=146871)
RE: Zoner ID line addition - Backo - 01-09-2017
(01-09-2017, 07:35 PM)sindroms Wrote: and Outcasts to worry about.
We only wanted Corsairs and Order dead.
Zoners shjote first!EDIT: jokes aside, I agree with your statement.
RE: Zoner ID line addition - Black Widow - 01-09-2017
(01-09-2017, 05:05 AM)Arioch Wrote: Hey everyone,
Really not happy with the addition of the line to the Zoner ID. Zoners aren't a PVP faction. They don't have a huge military, or really any actual military force. Instead of fighting, they scheme, they hire mercs, they get others to do it for them. They don't have the manpower to fight against paramilitary organizations.Yet with the addition of the line (even if it is temporary), turns them into a PVP faction in Delta. It allows for a ton of people to make/log Nephs for the sake of "pews". It goes against the lore, and goes against the attempt by myself and many others to make Zoners a fun and unique faction that is not centered around PVP.
On the flip side, Zoners SHOULD be able to defend themselves. They SHOULD be able to enforce their laws if they're broken. If they're attacked or their NFZ or laws broken, they should be able to enforce those/punish those who try to upset the peace. What would've been better, is if the line that is on the official ID be on all Zoner ID's, that they can enforce Zoner laws.
So, what i'd love to have is people vote on what they'd like better in this poll. Please also comment with your thoughts, but please be civil.
Thanks -
Remove zoner capital ships above cruiser class then your point will be valid because in lore zoners will not have the firepower to enact that line in their ID. Else you cant have your cake and eat it. Are you not a story developer? Make sense dont it
Why do zoners have more advanced tech than most houses is probably the dumbest thing in discovery right now. That plus them claiming they are not a military faction is pathetic.
Fix your lore
RE: Zoner ID line addition - Arioch - 01-09-2017
Not a story dev, but system dev.
As pointed out here, I agree with some of your points. But the Neph is a COLONY ship, not a battleship. The Carrier is, well read it's infocard. It's meant to haul exploration ships though has some defensive capabilities. So sorry, the lore doesn't need to be fixed. The amount of firepower a Neph has though, in my own personal opinion, should be lessened. Still can defend itself, but isn't the monster battleship some people use it for now.
RE: Zoner ID line addition - Sombs - 01-09-2017
Zoners live outside house security, thus they needed to come up with something to protect themselves from Nomads and other groups. The Nephilim is not a warship, it is a mobile colony ship, and just like any other base, it should have the capabilities of defending itself. The problem is not the ship. The problem is the lolwuts using it, as I'm complaining about them constantly. I have yet to encounter someone using the Nephilim in a way that is acceptable.
The same goes for the Aquilon. It is a Carrier, just like there is a civilian carrier out there. Carriers are Carriers, they carry smaller stuff. Nephilims are city ships with biodomes. Warships are warships. They are purely made for combat. The Nephilim is intended for defending a huge environment where people live on, just like a freeport. Other than stationary freeports, the Nephilim isn't invulnerable, so it's only fair to give it something to compromise: Zoner Capital Weaponry. Lore-wise, that is what the ships are. Gameplay wise, the issue is simply with the idiots that want the biggest freely available ship ingame. With very, very few people that have a Nephilim and yet know how to use them appropiately.
RE: Zoner ID line addition - Fish - 01-09-2017
(01-09-2017, 07:57 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: The problem is not the ship. The problem is the lolwuts using it
And
(01-09-2017, 07:53 PM)Arioch Wrote: The amount of firepower a Neph has though, in my own personal opinion, should be lessened. Still can defend itself, but isn't the monster battleship some people use it for now.
I think it would be fair to keep the hull hitpoints the same (or hell, even raise them) but give the powercore a huge nerf. A warship with 9,000,000 powercore makes sense, a civilian city that can fire all of its heavy weapons at the same time does not - sure, you'd expect it to have a ---ton of power (I mean, it IS a city) but all of that power does NOT have to go to the weapons, at least lorewise. In 824, I'd expect whoever built it to be capable of diverting specific amounts of power to whereever it's needed.
This will probably make literally everyone ever other cap players bluewhore every Neph they find since it can't exactly fight back with a light BS powercore, but it will surely fix the problem of having Zoner indies act like they are some kind of military warship.
RE: Zoner ID line addition - Black Widow - 01-09-2017
(01-09-2017, 07:57 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Zoners live outside house security, thus they needed to come up with something to protect themselves from Nomads and other groups. The Nephilim is not a warship, it is a mobile colony ship, and just like any other base, it should have the capabilities of defending itself. The problem is not the ship. The problem is the lolwuts using it, as I'm complaining about them constantly. I have yet to encounter someone using the Nephilim in a way that is acceptable.
The same goes for the Aquilon. It is a Carrier, just like there is a civilian carrier out there. Carriers are Carriers, they carry smaller stuff. Nephilims are city ships with biodomes. Warships are warships. They are purely made for combat. The Nephilim is intended for defending a huge environment where people live on, just like a freeport. Other than stationary freeports, the Nephilim isn't invulnerable, so it's only fair to give it something to compromise: Zoner Capital Weaponry. Lore-wise, that is what the ships are. Gameplay wise, the issue is simply with the idiots that want the biggest freely available ship ingame. With very, very few people that have a Nephilim and yet know how to use them appropiately.
The name of a ship does not mean it will be rp'd as such infact alot of what is inRP cannot actually be carried out ingame like rping a colony ship. There is not enough functionality to make that possible unless you pretend.
At the end of the day it is still a battleship. So either embrace the tech you have for the purpose of what it can do ingame or redesign it (ariochs auggestion) or make it SRP so that only serious roleplayers can use it.
Leviathans are SRP, why is a colony ship any less important. Its a deep space colony right. The resources to create one would be immense so they should be a rare sight i think
RE: Zoner ID line addition - Sombs - 01-09-2017
(01-09-2017, 08:20 PM)Black Widow Wrote:(01-09-2017, 07:57 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Zoners live outside house security, thus they needed to come up with something to protect themselves from Nomads and other groups. The Nephilim is not a warship, it is a mobile colony ship, and just like any other base, it should have the capabilities of defending itself. The problem is not the ship. The problem is the lolwuts using it, as I'm complaining about them constantly. I have yet to encounter someone using the Nephilim in a way that is acceptable.
The same goes for the Aquilon. It is a Carrier, just like there is a civilian carrier out there. Carriers are Carriers, they carry smaller stuff. Nephilims are city ships with biodomes. Warships are warships. They are purely made for combat. The Nephilim is intended for defending a huge environment where people live on, just like a freeport. Other than stationary freeports, the Nephilim isn't invulnerable, so it's only fair to give it something to compromise: Zoner Capital Weaponry. Lore-wise, that is what the ships are. Gameplay wise, the issue is simply with the idiots that want the biggest freely available ship ingame. With very, very few people that have a Nephilim and yet know how to use them appropiately.
The name of a ship does not mean it will be rp'd as such infact alot of what is inRP cannot actually be carried out ingame like rping a colony ship. There is not enough functionality to make that possible unless you pretend.
At the end of the day it is still a battleship. So either embrace the tech you have for the purpose of what it can do ingame or redesign it (ariochs auggestion) or make it SRP so that only serious roleplayers can use it.
Leviathans are SRP, why is a colony ship any less important. Its a deep space colony right. The resources to create one would be immense so they should be a rare sight i think
Yeah, and flying a Bretonia Battleship doesn't mean you have to act as Bretonia ordered it. By that logic, you'd limit your own FR5'd ship and many, many, many other ships. However, currently things are pretty well regulated already. If ORIZON or Arcadia decides to wage war against someone, it will have to deal with the consequences. The few Nephilims that are out there aren't that much of a problem. On the contrary, as long as they are acting within the ID, let them play their game, even when it's stupid. I'd rather have a giant flying bullseye flying through nomad space and challenging us to log rather than have nobody daring to go to Iota. Because there is nobody daring to do it, at least not with capitals. It's only indies. Yeah, we all know it's shitty to have lolwuts flying around in Nephs. And now? The amount of warships in Liberty is a joke as well. But!
If we now start and regulate every capital ship like SCRA and K'hara, with what leaves us that? K'hara is literally dying right now, and SCRA didn't even get a third player for the recent event if Vasko hadn't ask for in the shoutbox. Dying factions with great RP potential. Who exactly do you want to shoot in a Zoner drama when there are no Nephilims and Aquilons? Right, there is nothing.
I was pretty much also in the opinion to regulate it to only let TAZ, IRG and SRPs have access to them. It's just the same thing as taking them away from the game completely. Best example is the Persephone. How many times was that ship logged in the last months? Right, you get the idea. Indie capitals are just as important as they are annoying. But just like the ships of every other faction, they get regulated via FR5s and sanctions. It's a working concept.
So, yeah, don't touch the capitals. They are important for activity and gameplay, as some people just don't want to fly in stupid shieldrunning, basehugging, jittering, piling snubs.
RE: Zoner ID line addition - OllO - 01-09-2017
(01-09-2017, 09:13 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote:(01-09-2017, 08:20 PM)Black Widow Wrote:(01-09-2017, 07:57 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Zoners live outside house security, thus they needed to come up with something to protect themselves from Nomads and other groups. The Nephilim is not a warship, it is a mobile colony ship, and just like any other base, it should have the capabilities of defending itself. The problem is not the ship. The problem is the lolwuts using it, as I'm complaining about them constantly. I have yet to encounter someone using the Nephilim in a way that is acceptable.
The same goes for the Aquilon. It is a Carrier, just like there is a civilian carrier out there. Carriers are Carriers, they carry smaller stuff. Nephilims are city ships with biodomes. Warships are warships. They are purely made for combat. The Nephilim is intended for defending a huge environment where people live on, just like a freeport. Other than stationary freeports, the Nephilim isn't invulnerable, so it's only fair to give it something to compromise: Zoner Capital Weaponry. Lore-wise, that is what the ships are. Gameplay wise, the issue is simply with the idiots that want the biggest freely available ship ingame. With very, very few people that have a Nephilim and yet know how to use them appropiately.
The name of a ship does not mean it will be rp'd as such infact alot of what is inRP cannot actually be carried out ingame like rping a colony ship. There is not enough functionality to make that possible unless you pretend.
At the end of the day it is still a battleship. So either embrace the tech you have for the purpose of what it can do ingame or redesign it (ariochs auggestion) or make it SRP so that only serious roleplayers can use it.
Leviathans are SRP, why is a colony ship any less important. Its a deep space colony right. The resources to create one would be immense so they should be a rare sight i think
Yeah, and flying a Bretonia Battleship doesn't mean you have to act as Bretonia ordered it. By that logic, you'd limit your own FR5'd ship and many, many, many other ships. However, currently things are pretty well regulated already. If ORIZON or Arcadia decides to wage war against someone, it will have to deal with the consequences. The few Nephilims that are out there aren't that much of a problem. On the contrary, as long as they are acting within the ID, let them play their game, even when it's stupid. I'd rather have a giant flying bullseye flying through nomad space and challenging us to log rather than have nobody daring to go to Iota. Because there is nobody daring to do it, at least not with capitals. It's only indies. Yeah, we all know it's ***** to have lolwuts flying around in Nephs. And now? The amount of warships in Liberty is a joke as well. But!
If we now start and regulate every capital ship like SCRA and K'hara, with what leaves us that? K'hara is literally dying right now, and SCRA didn't even get a third player for the recent event if Vasko hadn't ask for in the shoutbox. Dying factions with great RP potential. Who exactly do you want to shoot in a Zoner drama when there are no Nephilims and Aquilons? Right, there is nothing.
I was pretty much also in the opinion to regulate it to only let TAZ, IRG and SRPs have access to them. It's just the same thing as taking them away from the game completely. Best example is the Persephone. How many times was that ship logged in the last months? Right, you get the idea. Indie capitals are just as important as they are annoying. But just like the ships of every other faction, they get regulated via FR5s and sanctions. It's a working concept.
So, yeah, don't touch the capitals. They are important for activity and gameplay, as some people just don't want to fly in stupid shieldrunning, basehugging, jittering, piling snubs.
++1
RE: Zoner ID line addition - Laura C. - 01-10-2017
(01-09-2017, 06:06 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: When I joined the Core| back nine months ago, the houses were pretty good with the Core. Rheinland is using the Core as a puffer to all the threats from the Omicrons, as they already have trouble with RHA and Corsairs, and the Core has the Arcani units in house space to gather information and support their allies. If I remember correctly, the Core is also good with the LSF, okay-ish with Kusari and Bretonia, and Core|APM deliveres much into house space, be it Iridium or Battleship remains. Lore-wise, the Core has a certain powerful reputation in the houses, that is spread via Propaganda (Commodity) and thus Core gets pilots from all over Sirius.
(01-09-2017, 06:06 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: The only ones remaining silent is the Core's allies, the houses, which is rather an issue.I think you should check again the real diplomacy status with houses. Can´t speak for others, but Rheinland is definitely not Core´s ally. As far as I know (as a member of the Bundestag and Rheinland native player), there are quite good relations with BDM, there were some contacts with RM in the past and attempt to cooperate during first Delta crisis, but when it comes to The Bundesrepublik Rheinland as a whole and it´s government aka Bundestag, we can hardly call the relations even as friendly. Yes, Core shoot our enemies, but how can it be ally with somebody with whom they talked directly -once and shortly- and that talk was caused by Core´s attempt to claim part of Rheinland territory (I know that Core then recalled it and went to cooperate on the matter, but still not a good conversation and relations starter)?
Don´t get me wrong, I am not saying that The Core wasn´t on the good way when it comes to relations with Rheinland, but it froze completely after Lyth´s ban. So from my point of view, current situation is that Core has some good and well-connected friends in Rheinland, but Rheinland is still far from being Core´s friend, not to mention ally. After all, some other well-connected figures like ALG are openly supporting Zoner side and during the first Delta crisis, Rheinland government did not support The Core and declared neutrality.
And on the point of remaining silent - what you actually expect from houses to do? Public declaration like "The Core are good people and the Rheinland government support their fight against evil entities and their effort in making Omicron Delta good place"? First, that would be quite a risk even if the relations would be good, because situation in Omicrons is a mess and nobody in Rheinland (or any house) actually knows in detail what happened down there. And second, clever well informed people in governments have some idea what The Core is and that they can do literally anything (just like BDM or any other intelligence agency for example) to reach their goals, including but not limited to killing civilians. Thus supporting them publicly may backfire heavily and may turn into diplomatic as well as PR suicide if it will turn out in public media that Core were the mad aggressors (like last time when they really were). No government wants to be associated publicly with that.