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+---- Thread: Bomber Balance (/showthread.php?tid=17443)
Bomber Balance - Enko - 03-09-2009
After having alot of test fights with the GC Bomber vs the GC Bomber, I can say without "death rage" I was surprised on how fast turning the Kyu Bomber was in the fight.
I don't expect to get into a fight against Fighters in the Bomber and naturally expect to come out of it alive either, In the fights the Bombers are the most susceptible to being shot down first. And as for the Bomber gun nerf thing, it's not required, all that is required is more bomber balancing so we don't have the maintained Kyu Bomber/Red Cat saga that has been going on for all this time.
Also as another note, you can't compare the stats of ships and say they are perfectly fine, you need to use them in real situations. If by saying number stats are the end all of all balancing, then what the hell happened with the Red Cat/Kyu Bomber in 4.84?
Bomber Balance - Derkylos - 03-09-2009
' Wrote:Though Derkylos, removing guns from bombers just makes them flying torpedo launchers. Four guns really isn't enough to hurt anything but fighters now, especially with the new mod.
Bombers are meant to be flying torpedo launchers, so what's wrong with making them what they are intended to be?
Please, mount 4 debs and tell me you can't kill a fighter. No matter how well the fighter strafes, if he ends up within about 100m of the front of a bomber, he is gonna eat a SN (assuming the bomber pilot can close to time his shots...)
Codes are nowhere near as effective on a bomber as pulse guns, as they are not so effective at stripping shields.
Assuming you intend for bombers to be an anti-cap vessel, what is the point in equipping them with guns that have a range of only 700m? At that distance, any reasonable cap setup will murder a fighter. The only real use bomber guns have is to kill fighters...which is not a bomber's intended role.
Bomber Balance - El Nino - 03-09-2009
Happy birthday Dab!
When i was your age i was able to look in to fl-stat and spot that GC and BD and KU bombers all have 48k powerplants not 58k like you stated.
Bomber Balance - mjolnir - 03-09-2009
' Wrote:Mjol misses out that all of these turning figures of 48k bombers are equal, or close to the larger VHF's in the mod, the templar, the titan and so forth, and you know all that lovely armour? it means jack **** when it eats a 130k SN. In experienced pilots cases, a long time wasted trying over and over to out turn the bomber. Hoping someone else comes along to 2-1 the bomber is NOT BALANCED.
1. Templar "dodges" much better than any bomber, actually much better than half of the VHFs in the mod and yes it is in the numbers.
2. How many fights with Kusari bombers did you had in 4.85?
Quote:It's not just the cat even, the Falcata and other such bombers are an absolute pain in the arse to fight as a VHF, sure you can SN them in a bomber with their.. largeness, but that means nothing to faithful VHF whores.
I'm sure though, that the new 48k bombers are easily handled in group fighter combat, maybe they'll outperform unfairly against caps, but meh..
however for small scale combat, i think that the current state of agile bombers is unacceptable.
Maybe I should point you towards similar thread that was here about 1.5 week ago?
I posted right there at the same time that I believe bombers should get lower class guns. Same discussion happened on the dev forum and general consensus (which was against my own opinion) was to check how it woks in new version first (at least first beta). Also due to auto updater we will be able to change it later.
Again I don't believe there were enough fights in 4.85 to say much about this.
Bomber Balance - Kubotan - 03-09-2009
Here are my summarized arguments as to counter the thread author and his continued arguments:
1. The whole proposal is based on one encounter. (excluding that the said author died during the battle and his judgment might have been affected by this.)
2. The initial post contains vital factual errors followed by an even more faulty voting.
3. All arguments as to the Kusari Bomber itself are subjective: Opinions, views and experiences.
4. Said author has not yet managed to counter-argument the numerical turning-rate advantages that the Golden Chrysanthemum bomber possesses versus the Kusari Bomber which was presented by the Balance Team Leader.
5. Said author has not yet managed to counter-argument the fact that the Kusari Bomber has received a size nerf aswell as lost its forward-firing turret.
Bomber Balance - Grumblesaur - 03-09-2009
' Wrote:Bombers are meant to be flying torpedo launchers, so what's wrong with making them what they are intended to be?
Please, mount 4 debs and tell me you can't kill a fighter. No matter how well the fighter strafes, if he ends up within about 100m of the front of a bomber, he is gonna eat a SN (assuming the bomber pilot can close to time his shots...)
Codes are nowhere near as effective on a bomber as pulse guns, as they are not so effective at stripping shields.
Assuming you intend for bombers to be an anti-cap vessel, what is the point in equipping them with guns that have a range of only 700m? At that distance, any reasonable cap setup will murder a fighter. The only real use bomber guns have is to kill fighters...which is not a bomber's intended role.
Well, would debs also be useless with their range?
Codes are flashy. They aren't so much for damage as faction guns aren't much better on bombers.
The guns on there are for defensive reasons.
Fighters only get instakilled when they don't take advantage of their agility.
No, bombers are not supposed to be able to kill fighters, but they will find a way anyway. I use Inferno/SN shots to kill fighters when I'm not focused on caps. The thing about bombers is, they can only take a fighter in a 1v1 joust. Now if you up the numbers against the bomber, it's toast.
Now please consider the following:
STOP TRYING TO NERF BOMBERS IN GENERAL.
Bomber Balance - Jinx - 03-09-2009
i think it would be beneficial when more fights were done... even on the closed beta server... it was asked to do 6 fights at least to get a "rough" picture of a ship - 3 fights in one bomber - then switch and 3 fights in the other.
just an example - a few hours ago, i was like totally torn apart by a VHF and a HF ( templar / paladin ) in my gaian GB .... but i wouldn t expect the gaian gunboat to be really bad - or the other ships to be too good.
especially bomber balance is a tough issue - the more fights are done, the better it can be balanced. - also test it vs. the taidan bomber / BHG bomber / rheinland bomber / possibly barghest / etc. - only that way one can figure out whats too good, too bad or just fine.
numbers only tell you so much - much more important than numbers is how the ship feels ingame.
Bomber Balance - El Nino - 03-09-2009
:DWell if anything 4.85 cats are a bit underpowered, but really noone wants to boost them unless we are sure they are not good enough...
Bomber Balance - Benjamin - 03-09-2009
edit: yeah by the time I made this post like 90 other posts had been made. goodbye!
Bomber Balance - Kambei - 03-09-2009
I dont understand question in poll. Is "yes" for rebalance or keeping it like it is now? Maybe I am just too dumb but I dont see in that question bigger difference than for example
vegetable color
"do ve need corn/carrot"
yes
no
other
:wacko: