(11-03-2023, 10:43 PM)Erremnart Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:22 PM)Sombs Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 09:58 PM)Erremnart Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 09:40 PM)Sombs Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 09:36 PM)Erremnart Wrote:

Outcasts and Corsairs operate differently from each other. There's no need for any kind of parity. Outcasts aren't building an empire, thus they have no need for bases further away from Malta. Bases they've lost around and in Omicron Alpha are consequences of their slavery they never truly needed (yes, Outcasts had no need for slaves for 800 years of their existence) combined with their quite considerable number of enemies who'd exploit any opening.

Weird how in the past slavery was one of the biggest deals, then, with the RP background being that the slaves provided the workforce the Outcasts couldn't produce themselves thanks to Cardamine reducing their fertility. But I guess that's just another thing that got retconned in 5.0.

Vanilla Outcasts weren't slavers - so, the slavery was a DIsco addition which means it was relatively short-lived practice from their perspective. Instead of retconning it, it was evolved and simply stopped being effective + also a huge security risk (slaves always rebel in the end - not a question of "if", but "when").

Given how rich they are, they can just buy robots to do the work for them instead.

So the solution was a slave uprising at the one place where slaves would be fully aware they would die if they left? They are already depending on Cardamine, sir.

I don't know, there are a lot of big questions about that entire story decision, considering everything that was established in vanilla and in 30 years of Discovery lore. But that, obviously, is in your hands now.

There wasn't any good option for those slaves - a small group of slaves rebelled on Albegna as they were to be exemplary executed, and killed Don Benitez instead. What would Outcast reaction be to all other slaves? Would they be decimated as a punishment? Outcasts are ruthless and petty, they wouldn't be nice to them. For many of slaves - they were already dead regardless of what they do, then perhaps they can have some revenge. They fought like cornered animals.

They simply had no guarantees that they'll be unharmed if they won't rebel. Obviously, not all slaves rebelled and some fought alongside their masters.

Planet Malta is a remarkable fortress with its vast and sophisticated planetary defenses, but not if it's sabotaged from within - something truly unthinkable for the Outcasts.

And yes, Outcasts weren't slavers in vanilla. There isn't a single mention of it.

(11-03-2023, 10:42 PM)Sombs Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:41 PM)Vulkhard Muller Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:22 PM)Sombs Wrote: So the solution was a slave uprising at the one place where slaves would be fully aware they would die if they left? They are already depending on Cardamine, sir.

I don't know, there are a lot of big questions about that entire story decision, considering everything that was established in vanilla and in 30 years of Discovery lore. But that, obviously, is in your hands now.

I wouldn't go that far,

Here's the thing, people in situations like that are more likely in the "Get free figure out Cardi Addiction later" mindset also, Cryer's Stabiline has at this point I am pretty sure a well proven track record of success. So, it isn't a death sentence to leave but it is inevitably one to stay.

You might want to read up on the vanishing of Stabiline since, you guess it, 5.0

(11-03-2023, 10:42 PM)Sombs Wrote: You might want to read up on the vanishing of Stabiline since, you guess it, 5.0

(11-03-2023, 10:52 PM)TheSauron Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:42 PM)Sombs Wrote: You might want to read up on the vanishing of Stabiline since, you guess it, 5.0

You might want to read up on faction-specific commodities being temporarily absent while the basic ones are finetuned. Stabiline was not retconned, it is just currently not part of the eco.

(11-03-2023, 10:42 PM)Sombs Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:41 PM)Vulkhard Muller Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:22 PM)Sombs Wrote: So the solution was a slave uprising at the one place where slaves would be fully aware they would die if they left? They are already depending on Cardamine, sir.

I don't know, there are a lot of big questions about that entire story decision, considering everything that was established in vanilla and in 30 years of Discovery lore. But that, obviously, is in your hands now.

I wouldn't go that far,

Here's the thing, people in situations like that are more likely in the "Get free figure out Cardi Addiction later" mindset also, Cryer's Stabiline has at this point I am pretty sure a well proven track record of success. So, it isn't a death sentence to leave but it is inevitably one to stay.

You might want to read up on the vanishing of Stabiline since, you guess it, 5.0

(11-03-2023, 10:50 PM)Sombs Wrote: True, the only mention of slavers was related to LPI, which lead to the entire slavery being a thing in Discovery, especially for Malta, because of the side-effect of Cardamine being the drastically reduced birth rates - something that was mentioned in vanilla. The Dons of Malta were involved in all kinds of black market activities, for example the import of Daumann weapons via Kreuzberg in Rheinland or the import from bretonian weapons via Trafalgar. While it wasn't a thing in vanilla, it was a quintessential thing in Discovery. But as it were, another case of new management, new lore.

Now we are looking at a slave rebellion of slaves that wanted to leave Malta so desperately that they forgot that they can barely survive without it, thanks to the Cardamine.

(11-03-2023, 11:03 PM)Sombs Wrote: I have read up on that. In fact, the person writing the story didn't shut up about it while writing it. I was, however, not aware that Stabiline was supposed to return. To the best of my knowledge, it was removed because it essentially made Cardamine pointless. Glad to be informed of the opposite.

(11-03-2023, 11:04 PM)Erremnart Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:50 PM)Sombs Wrote: True, the only mention of slavers was related to LPI, which lead to the entire slavery being a thing in Discovery, especially for Malta, because of the side-effect of Cardamine being the drastically reduced birth rates - something that was mentioned in vanilla. The Dons of Malta were involved in all kinds of black market activities, for example the import of Daumann weapons via Kreuzberg in Rheinland or the import from bretonian weapons via Trafalgar. While it wasn't a thing in vanilla, it was a quintessential thing in Discovery. But as it were, another case of new management, new lore.

Now we are looking at a slave rebellion of slaves that wanted to leave Malta so desperately that they forgot that they can barely survive without it, thanks to the Cardamine.

Outcasts have lower birthrates, but they haven't died out in the past eight centuries despite living in the Omicrons and fighting with like 90% of Sirius, so their population is clearly above replacement rate. One might say that they even thrived. I guess their longevity also helps with this if their population is fertile for far longer. So, they aren't dying out or anything, just people in the Colonies or on Crete breed like rabbits.

One might look on the slavery as an experiment how to increase their population counts, but importing captive people who clearly hate or fear you isn't the best solution for this, nor the best idea.

(11-03-2023, 11:04 PM)Vulkhard Muller Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:42 PM)Sombs Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:41 PM)Vulkhard Muller Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:22 PM)Sombs Wrote: So the solution was a slave uprising at the one place where slaves would be fully aware they would die if they left? They are already depending on Cardamine, sir.

I don't know, there are a lot of big questions about that entire story decision, considering everything that was established in vanilla and in 30 years of Discovery lore. But that, obviously, is in your hands now.

I wouldn't go that far,

Here's the thing, people in situations like that are more likely in the "Get free figure out Cardi Addiction later" mindset also, Cryer's Stabiline has at this point I am pretty sure a well proven track record of success. So, it isn't a death sentence to leave but it is inevitably one to stay.

You might want to read up on the vanishing of Stabiline since, you guess it, 5.0

Am I missing the Lore somewhere? Only thing Lore wise I have seen is this:

(click to enlarge)

Unless you meant from the economy in which case I'd point out(After reloading .ini files) Stabaline is very much still right here:

(click to enlarge)

(11-03-2023, 10:22 PM)Sombs Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 09:58 PM)Erremnart Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 09:40 PM)Sombs Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 09:36 PM)Erremnart Wrote:

Outcasts and Corsairs operate differently from each other. There's no need for any kind of parity. Outcasts aren't building an empire, thus they have no need for bases further away from Malta. Bases they've lost around and in Omicron Alpha are consequences of their slavery they never truly needed (yes, Outcasts had no need for slaves for 800 years of their existence) combined with their quite considerable number of enemies who'd exploit any opening.

Weird how in the past slavery was one of the biggest deals, then, with the RP background being that the slaves provided the workforce the Outcasts couldn't produce themselves thanks to Cardamine reducing their fertility. But I guess that's just another thing that got retconned in 5.0.

Vanilla Outcasts weren't slavers - so, the slavery was a DIsco addition which means it was relatively short-lived practice from their perspective. Instead of retconning it, it was evolved and simply stopped being effective + also a huge security risk (slaves always rebel in the end - not a question of "if", but "when").

Given how rich they are, they can just buy robots to do the work for them instead.

So the solution was a slave uprising at the one place where slaves would be fully aware they would die if they left? They are already depending on Cardamine, sir.

I don't know, there are a lot of big questions about that entire story decision, considering everything that was established in vanilla and in 30 years of Discovery lore. But that, obviously, is in your hands now.