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+--- Thread: Friends shooting Friends (/showthread.php?tid=20553)
Friends shooting Friends - Grumblesaur - 05-16-2009
What I'd like to know is why Corsairs are pirating/destroying transports headed to Omega-49 who are delivering goods to Zoners and Corsairs on the surface?
It's biting the hand that feeds. With fangs.
Friends shooting Friends - darthbeck - 05-16-2009
"Do not place all your hope in nuetrality, for if you do. you will end up with the ultimate neutrality, the neutrality of being dead."
Friends shooting Friends - Grumblesaur - 05-16-2009
' Wrote:"Do not place all your hope in nuetrality, for if you do. you will end up with the ultimate neutrality, the neutrality of being dead."
That's not ultimate neutrality, that's just paying the ultimate price.
Friends shooting Friends - ugliestmoose - 05-16-2009
Let me first say that I don't think the Corsair presence in O-49 should just be written out of Disco and all memories of it swept under the rug. On the contrary, I think it opens up lots of RP opportunities if played out smartly. And besides, Corsairs are like a bug infestation: once they're in, it's awfully hard to get them out:P(I'm only kidding, right guys? Guys?) The Zoners would have a hell of a time just kicking out a group as powerful as the Corsairs.
The problem right now is that O-49 is like candyland for the Corsairs: there's absolutely no one there to give them the slightest resistance (save the rare BH patrol). I'm fine with Corsairs pirating there, but currently it's like a Sair playground.
Speaking from a Molly perspective, I've chased traders/Corsairs/whoever into O-49 on a few rare occasions, only to be greeted by Titan swarms that rival anything in Gamma. Like what's been proposed, eliminate Corsair patrols in the niobium field - maybe even the entire western half of O-49 - and throw in some Molly or Zoner patrols. After all, it's a risky diplomatic proposition for the Zoners to allow Corsairs that close to Dublin and another entrance into Bretonia: the Mollys would obviously be pissed, but so would the Bretonian House in general as that opens a potential second front into their territory.
Friends shooting Friends - Dab - 05-16-2009
First Zelot, Corsairs don't leave Zoner stations alone fully because they supply Corsairs with food (and other supplies), but also give them a place to sell the goods they pirate off of traders but don't need on Crete. But food IS the main reason, because Corsairs DON'T have access to places to get food in sufficient quantities other than from Zoners. Everyone not hostile to Corsairs doesn't have big enough ships to transport enough food. Zoners can transport large amounts of food they grew nearby straight to Crete. As opposed to Hogosha or Gaians sending small tiny freighters all the way from their houses to Gamma, probably attacked by enemies often..
Second, Zoners may not be as strong as Corsairs, but they are sufficiently powerful enough to defend their stations from Corsairs at this point, considering Corsairs have to deal with the added situation of fighting Bretonia, Mollies, GC, BHG, GMG, and most importantly, the Outcasts. BHG would also gladly defend Zoner stations from the Corsairs. They get paid to defend it, and get paid for the bounty rewards they receive for capturing/killing Corsairs.
And I threw that 2nd idea of adding a new news/rumor item about Zoners canceling the defense deal with the Corsairs so that the old isn't just thrown out (regardless of the fact that it doesn't make sense) but its just a continuation.
And about Gran Canaria. The planet has always been owned by the Zoners, and was settled by the Zoners. Regardless of the amount of Corsairs on the planet, it belongs to the Zoners. If Manhatten had more Bretonians living on it than Libertonians, it wouldn't go over to being owned by Bretonia. Partly or fully. So I'd have to say I disagree with the dual-docking ring idea. The Corsairs may have a sizable population there, but not THAT sizable, and not with enough influence to get their own docking ring. Many of the 'sairs on GC probably moved to the new base in Omega-50 once it was finished anyway.
And how does removing Corsairs from Omega-49 unbalance anything? You know, there are Zoner stations outside the Corsair ZoI.. Freeport 7, Freeport 6, Ames Research Station. There is no balance between Zoners and Corsairs.. They aren't enemies, and there is nothing to balance.
Besides, as I said above, both the fact that there are so many Corsairs in Omega-49, and the fact that Zoners hired them to defend the system makes no sense whatsoever. Why are they there in such numbers? And how do so many get there, passing through Hessian territory and passed Hessian bases, and through numerous BHG patrols? And why would Zoners hire them to protect Omega-49 in the first place? Zoners aren't under attack, especially all the way out there. Not to mention they've got enough defenses of their own around their home planet to keep it safe. If there was a legitimate reason to have either of these, then I'd be more open to the concept, but I don't see why either of these exists in the first place.
EDIT: This came out a little oddly; I'm not saying to remove all Corsairs from Omega-49. Just significantly reducing the number of them and adding in patrols of the other factions that should be present but were neglected. You wish for balance Zelot, so this shouldn't be a problem for you..
Friends shooting Friends - Grumblesaur - 05-16-2009
There's no reason for Corsairs to protect Omega-49 anyway. The only things that attack Zoners are Nomads, Wilde, and Harvesters.
Normally I wouldn't, but I fully agree with Dab here.
But I'd still like to know why the Corsairs are basically robbing their main food source in their own system.
Friends shooting Friends - Rudo - 05-16-2009
' Wrote:Here he have sombunall corsairs (small "C"), and other assorted pirates attempting to shake down and/or shoot up IMG miners..
My perspective: A leader of a player faction representing an NPC faction who will become overrun with 'junkers' (small "J") if O-49 is made less and less profitable and people want a piracy-free payday, as well as formerly having to police the most volatile NFZ in 4.84. I know what I'm talking about and how things can degrade if this isn't handled right.
The question lies in the method of tamping down the 'corsairs': will this be handled by 'zoners' and/or more Harris-diseased Bounty Hunter/IMG cap ships? Or will there be an eloquent, elegant solution with hard concise rules and a lot of muscle to back it up?
When the Harvesters and Congress were charged with keeping the peace around Yanagi we saw all kinds of nonsense. I can't offer a lot of hard advice except that you should clearly define a set of regulations, and be prepared to police them mercilessly and remorselessly. Only after a few righteous cullings with a lot of witnesses will people even listen to you, one way or another.
I'm not going to say that the Congress/Harvester defense of Yanagi was a runaway success, because it wasn't and it made me want to quit my post a good number of times. People will whine, they will lie, they will say anything as a player to get out of hard reprecussions for their character. To this day it's had a hard impact on my urge to interact with the Discovery community as a whole.
Whatever you do, do it right and make sure you want to do it. That's all I can offer.
Friends shooting Friends - Malaclypse 666 - 05-16-2009
Zelot, a Very interesting proposal for Canaria, another docking facility for the Corsair "enclave".
And I fully understand your position regarding "history", if not your seeming neophobia concerning the future.
I don't think we're asking to rewrite history. We're exploring the possibilites by reviewing the current status quo, and asking the right to determine the future to a degree.
As to your being offended, what are we demanding be wiped out, Zelot? A piece of paper. A contract that if you want to talk "realities" probably hasn't been needed for quite some time.
I will also choose to be offended by the old litany (again, fueled by history and not by the future) that if one little apple on the Corsair car is disturbed, it means Freeports in flames. You don't need our food anymore, eh? Progress. That's good! Yay! But Zoners are now strong enough, rich enough, and powerful enough to not require your "protective" services in one system? Bad! Heresy! Boo!
I sense that you wish to move forward in the sense that Corsairs are no longer dependent on Zoners for food.. to move past the "vanilla" paradigm and its restrictions.
Why is it so difficult to allow us the same courtesy and priviledge?
Friends shooting Friends - Zelot - 05-16-2009
Corsairs are not there to "protect" exactly. The Zoners gave the Corsairs the routes through 49 and safety and access to the system to stop people from finding the system. The whole idea is that if the Bretonians or Mollies had found out about the system they would obviously sweep right in and take it from the Zoners, with little the Zoners could do about it. So, the Zoners bring in the Corsairs to keep the Bretonians and Mollies occupied and not bothering with 49. It does fit right in with the Zoner mentality, dont get into the confrontation with the Bretonians or Mollies, instead throw one of their enemies at them so you dont have to deal with them.
Now, as to the NPC, I couldnt care less about how many or how strong, except there really shouldnt be molly NPC's as that is the whole reason the Corsairs are there.
Yes, Gran Canaria is "owned" by the Zoners, but does that mean you should ignore all the rp issues that come along with a huge non zoner population living there?
Friends shooting Friends - Zelot - 05-16-2009
' Wrote:Zelot, a Very interesting proposal for Canaria, another docking facility for the Corsair "enclave".
And I fully understand your position regarding "history", if not your seeming neophobia concerning the future.
I don't think we're asking to rewrite history. We're exploring the possibilites by reviewing the current status quo, and asking the right to determine the future to a degree.
As to your being offended, what are we demanding be wiped out, Zelot? A piece of paper. A contract that if you want to talk "realities" probably hasn't been needed for quite some time.
I will also choose to be offended by the old litany (again, fueled by history and not by the future) that if one little apple on the Corsair car is disturbed, it means Freeports in flames. You don't need our food anymore, eh? Progress. That's good! Yay! But Zoners are now strong enough, rich enough, and powerful enough to not require your "protective" services in one system? Bad! Heresy! Boo!
I sense that you wish to move forward in the sense that Corsairs are no longer dependent on Zoners for food.. to move past the "vanilla" paradigm and its restrictions.
Why is it so difficult to allow us the same courtesy and priviledge?
Move on down the road old friend, except that this "protection" was not some contract, it was an exchange of maps and jumphole coordinates. Are you going to take back the maps? Somehow make us forget the Jumpholes? You wanted us to keep the Bretonians busy, you gave us the tools to do it... you taught us to fish, pretty hard to unteach it. As someone said earlier, once Corsairs are in a place, terribly hard to get them out. Mal, I have no problem with Zoners developing, my advice on dealing with the Corsairs during that process is that Zoner neutrality will not get you far in dealing with the Corsairs, you need to bring something to the table, and if you are going to be trying to kick the sairs out of 49, that something will have to be mighty shiney.
As to the Corsairs and food, we now have 4 Biodomes and have extensively rp'ed deals with the Farmers Alliance for sending food to Crete, and in .86, with Nagano, the distance will be much shorter to get it from field to the Corsairs tables. Mal, the Corsairs are past vanilla, and it's restrictions, we can get food, maybe not everyone in Corsairville has enough to eat, but the time of massive starvation is a thing of the past.