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+--- Thread: Admin Notice : Faction Warned (/showthread.php?tid=24901)
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Eppy - 08-15-2009
![[Image: finisheddickwar.png]](http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/willowthebored/finisheddickwar.png)
EDIT: If that's too much, mods, PM me and I'll voluntarily take it down. However, they say a picture is worth a thousand words, and I quite frankly had a great time making that thing.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Cannon - 08-15-2009
Cleaned out posts that were off topic or flame bait (nice pic eppy, but it's gone too). Locked this thread to stop more. PM me if you need to post here.
EDIT: unlocked now
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - bluntpencil2001 - 08-19-2009
Dieter Wrote:1) The RP reasons for QCP targetting the Zoners, though plausible, are quite weak to justify the Vendetta that has ensued. Zoners, it seems, are currently your primary targets, to the exclusion of the more legitimate KNF and Corsair threats. However, the merits and demerits of the RP are not the most important issue.
This, I find quite offensive. This is applying opinion to something, really. Personally, I thought our RP reasons were without holes entirely. Just because one doesn't like something doesn't make it wrong. Whether something is 'good' or not is simply opinion. Personally, I dislike the vast majority of Terrorist RP as being very 'comic-book' styled and not truly fitting. However, I do not complain when blown up by said players, as it is not my right to tell them they are wrong, it is merely my opinion that it isn't great RP. One could also ask why the Zoners required their entire capital fleet in Omega 49 to deal with a bunch of privateers compared to the greater threat of the Nomads in the Omicrons, but we didn't since we're not here to judge their RP.
Also, we are told we are ignoring the Corsair threat. That is untrue. This is the main reason for our conflict with the Zoners. See the Planet Gran Canaria and Planet Cork infocards. The Planet Gran Canaria infocard itself states that the presence of Mollys, Hunters, Hessians and Bretonian scouts are beginning to cause tension between the Zoners and Corsairs. We are trying to roleplay that and make some money in the process.
In fact, lots of reasons were given for our actions. None were poor RP. They might be bad reasons, like in real life, because people fight for bad reasons in real life. See: Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, the First World War...
Dieter Wrote:2) The gameplay impact it has had. Understand, this has not been consistently negative. Some support QCP's actions or are at least indifferent. Some Zoners don't mind as much, but a great many have been angered a great deal. Most importantly, obviously, Mal. But this thing was pushed into the realm of the personal, when it could have been stopped, instead of buttons being pushed all the harder.
There has been little to no gameplay effect, since the QCP only got in about 3 fights with Zoners. The effect was on the forum from complaining as a defence mechanism, yelling 'powergaming' instead of roleplaying negotiations, which is ironic, considering how many Zoner players ignore infocards and their own RP. Many Zoner players are denying that they use Synth Foods biodomes, which is untrue, powergaming both LWB and Synth Foods out of potentially interesting conflict and RP. They also seem to powergame the relations between Zoners and Cambridge Research, a Cryer outfit, not Zoner.
No warnings there. No warnings when Zoners claim to have control of Sirius trade and able to shut down a House via embargo, in spite of their vanilla RP as effectively squatters. No warnings when Zoners tell me that they're neutral to me, even though the recognition of neutrality does not simply occur when one says "I'm neutral!" Your decision to cast yourself as neutral only truly applies when it is recognised. Telling me that I have to recognise it is unfair.
They also claim that Omega 49 is not used for Corsair attacks, in spite of the Gran Canaria infocard saying that this is exactly why the Corsairs paid for maps of Omega 49. On top of this, the TAZ ignore their own roleplay. What happened to revelling in chaos? I gave them chaos and disorder, and they sought to impose order. I'm all for hypocrisy in religion, but, please keep it in character.
Also, the fact that a player left due to some shots being fired, entirely within RP, is more a problem with that player (who got similarly angry when the Keepers attacked Zoners. You know, those aliens that blew up a Freeport?) than ourselves, as well as the fact that said player, admittedly popular, laid the blame ay our feet, with some untrue accusations.
Punishing us because a popular player left, for a bad reason, is not fair, and yes, we are being punished. What would the Phantoms say if they were told they're not allowed to shoot X player?
Furthermore, I really doubt the Zoners have managed to stop any attacks on Omega 49. I predict that with recent information leaks regarding Corsair flanking maneuvers, the Mollys will descend on the place like a pack of rabid wolves. Can you sanction that? What about the Hessians from 47, seeing the Corsair supply line?
There is another problem with this sanction: It sets a precedent. It gives Zoners protection from violence in RP, using the rules as a weapon. Effectively, every Zoner gunship, destroyer and Juggernaut now has admin shields.
If a pirate breaks a No Fire Zone and a Juggernaut comes out to enforce it, to find that the pirate takes it personal, that Juggernaut can go and complain to the admins about this. In fact, this was the first defence the Zoners used. Instead of attempting to RP their way out, the first thing I got was flames. And then I get accused of poor RP.
The fact that people got angry over this is actually very sad. What were they angry over? Really, what is there to be angry about?
To me, it looks like people complaining because they might 'lose'. If I did that as a child, my mother would be furious. The funny thing is, in an RPG, even if you explode or are defeated politically, you don't 'lose', since you played your role and that is the goal, not 'winning', although it is certainly enjoyable to make successful characters.
Also...
We have another problem.
We were effectively forced to create a faction. That costs us 500 million.:(
We have been also asked to give up our own RP to find an end. A final battle? The QCP were founded because battles are stupid. Strategy wins wars, not battles.
Anyway, we're innocent of all charges. If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit!:)
We're willing to entertain suggestions Zoners might have in-RP to keep us out. I would suggest epic bribery (if they can afford all those Juggernauts, I reckon they can fork over a lot!), refusal to enforce their silly NFZs against BAF in Omega 3 etc etc.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - DAnvilFan - 08-19-2009
After an absurd number of debates, I think that QCP should be granted the right to hunt after Zoners. I don't agree with that line of roleplay, but it's up to the players to make that decision.
As a small sidenote, I would like to point out two things that do bother me about this roleplaying outcome.
1. QCP attack occured as a result of a bounty placed on Zoners. QCP leader Andrew stated that he neither agrees nor disagrees with the bounty, and that he is neutral on the matter. He was attacked by a TAZ ship for breaking Freeport Neutrality (pirating a ship). Since then, the conflict between Zoners and QCP has emerged with the claimed cause being that Zoners supply Corsairs with shelter and allowing mass-murderers of Planet Cork to base off of Gran Canaria. This is a contradicting statement because the real conflict emerged from Andrew being attacked for breaking FNZ.
How does a character that claims to be neutral one day turn around and wage a war on Zoners for protecting Corsairs since they bombed Planet Cork?
2. QCP have had how many months to execute this warfare against Zoners in O-49? The infocards does say that Corsairs were paid by Zoners to protect the system, but in-game wise, an event occured in which Corsairs were asked not to perform such duties. And additionally, in-game Corsairs perform most of their raiding from O-50, which is a minute away from Gran Canaria.
I've highlighted some stuff below:
' Wrote:I cannot give this bounty my backing, gentlemen, being the respected individual that I am.
Of course, I can't condemn it either, seeing as pirates and terrorists pour into Bretonia from Zoner bases.
I would, however, like to point out that the Order are not terrorists, some of their greatest heroes were from Planet Leeds, if my intel is correct.
Regardless, it is true that the Corsairs use Freeport One as a staging ground for theft, murder and terrorism against helpless civilians. The Zoners even protect them when they sit outside or at the bar. Now, I can't claim that's wrong, per se, but I can't see what is right about it.
As it stands, I shant be recommending my men take this job, but I certainly shant order them not to do it either. I can't bring myself to care. I'm very neutral on the issue, if one catches my drift.
Yours,
Andy
So my question is how did this point of view turn into this one (same thread, just next day):
' Wrote:My point exactly, son.
Those that nuked Cork into oblivion should not find safe haven in the homes of anyone.
We don't want to resupply at your bases. We would rather nobody did. You're just out to make a profit from everyone. It ends now, kid. Bretonia doesn't allow those that murder Zoners to dock on her bases, so I think they'd expect the same in turn.
-Andy
Andrew already admitted that the Zoners protect Corsairs outside of their Freeports (which isn't true, but we'll assume that logic from his point of view), so why did he change his opinion so radically when his ship was attacked by TAZ security?
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Elsdragon - 08-19-2009
ima /Sign what Blunt said, Most of the whining came form Powertraders who wanted to Be perfectly neutral, and not let anything interfere with that. PLease folks, use some RP.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - bluntpencil2001 - 08-19-2009
' Wrote:How does a character that claims to be neutral one day turn around and wage a war on Zoners for protecting Corsairs since they bombed Planet Cork?He was mocking Zoner neutrality.
He was saying 'there's nothing I can do about my men, just like there's nothing you can apparently do about Corsairs'. This translates as 'I'll call my boys off when you evict the Corsairs'. Read between the lines, please.
Remember, I'm not playing an honest character. I'm playing a pirate, thief, fraudster and con artist. His opinion was the same the whole time.
In fact, whilst he was claiming to be neutral, he was (obviously) ordering his men to shoot the Zoners that were bothering him.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Blodo - 08-19-2009
' Wrote:1. QCP attack occured as a result of a bounty placed on Zoners. QCP leader Andrew stated that he neither agrees nor disagrees with the bounty, and that he is neutral on the matter. He was attacked by a TAZ ship for breaking Freeport Neutrality (pirating a ship). Since then, the conflict between Zoners and QCP has emerged with the claimed cause being that Zoners supply Corsairs with shelter and allowing mass-murderers of Planet Cork to base off of Gran Canaria. This is a contradicting statement because the real conflict emerged from Andrew being attacked for breaking FNZ.I think I can answer this. Both are in all actuality reasons for the QCP attacks, though the TAZ attack is a very superficial one in comparance to the other, and is more of a result of the second one. What Stuart was doing ingame by claiming he was completely neutral to the bounty: he was mocking Zoner apathy towards allowing murderers and pirates landing rights. Something that has been confirmed by Zoners as "part of their way". That is the main reason for the attacks. The bounty was a catalyst, the other reasons were mockery.
How does a character that claims to be neutral one day turn around and wage a war on Zoners for protecting Corsairs since they bombed Planet Cork?
As to why attack O-49 now: it is an attack on both Corsairs and Zoners, as the Zoners also frequently run the blockade through Bretonia to what QCP suspects to be Kusari. So in the viewpoint of the QCP the Zoners are helping two of Bretonia's enemies, and that more than justifies a direct assault.
Now, I'll punch the ball into the Order's court: it just makes me laugh out loud that the Zoners would pull forces from elsewhere to deal with what is effectively a small band of brigands, but that's ok they have no unified command structure so its down to each individual captain making a decision I guess. But the Order mobilising its forces away from the Nomads to deal with pirates that are outnumbered by the Zoner defense force already (both in RP and out of RP) is just completely laughable. Not that I am complaining about how one gets three whole fleets undocking when making an attack on Canaria due to the sheer amount of caps docked there, but the Order being there is just borderline lolwut... Just a small rant on the subject.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Grimly - 08-19-2009
Hmmm I think what the QCP did was a really good war act against the corsair !
Let's talk strategy...
Bretonia is actually at war against the corsairs and the KNF. What's interesting here is the corsair side.
The corsairs do not produce enough food for their people and have to get lot of it from different suppliers. The only faction that can fit this place is the zoners. They have lot of food, they produce it in mass.
The gold from bretonia on way to the Rheinland is disrupted and moved to Tripoli, so the corsairs have enough money to buy the zoners all their food to a high price. The Bretonians can't hold the convoys to the Rheinland due to the economical treat it would provide so it can't make hungry the corsairs this way.
So bretonians know about the corsairs need the zoners to live, so instead of attacking the bigger treat from front against overarmed crafts, the QCP hit them from behind, zoners in a system where the corsair influence is at his minimal.
Kill the zoners and you will kill the corsairs, that's all !
Now on corsair. Why do you think the corsairs are present and applying their pressure on the zoners ? It's about to survive, feed themselves ! As I just said, kill the zoners and you will kill the corsairs. The corsairs deployed a defensive force against the QCP to that aim, survive.
I do not blame the QCP for their zoner hunting, I even applaud them for the tactics.
Bretonia and Corsairs are at war, a bloody one, that's how all of those event started.
If the Privateers still want to leave Bretonia a chance to leave few peace and redirect his forces against Kusari, they must continue their massacre.
In short, zoners must suffer or bretonia will die !
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Zeltak - 08-19-2009
In short the QCP had a very logical Role-Play justification to engage Zoners due to the rising Corsair threats. The Zoner community used the wrong approach here and acted outside the boundaries of Role-Play to get back at the QCP due to the Zoners feeling threatened that their neutrality-shield-of-immortality didn't cut it for some groups.
I also wouldn't be surprised to see Hessians attacking Zoners due to the vital supplies the Corsairs receives from the Zoners and by cutting that supply line short the Hessians also gain the upper-hand in the war. Also don't see any benefits the Hessians get from the Zoners, in fact they only seem to receive losses by ignoring them.
Admin Notice : Faction Warned - Lucend - 08-19-2009
Firstly, I would like to say that I love the Privateer roleplay and don't want that to go away. I'm sure many people here, Blunt, feel the same and would donate to help your faction.
Secondly, I'm going to be frank and say the primary reason I have for thinking the QCP OORP when they go to Omega 49, is the whole point of the faction. Yes, the QCP has nothing inherently symbiotic about Kusari. But I feel like a ZOI barrier has been broken. Pirates have more authority and more power in an area than lawfuls precisely because they are acting outside of the law. We, as a community, restrict these pirates to specific areas, because we feel that a Molly in Rhienland, or a Corsair in Liberty to be powergaming. A pirate or privateer has the right to demand cargo from a trader, stop contraband and fight the enemy. You are essentially replacing the police and military with an overarching faction.
This was my whole point when I accidentally gave advice to LeMaitre. The Privateers were made to interdict KUSARI shipments and roleplay in Kusari. I know it's out of date, but if you look at the BAF faction status, you'll see that the Privateer ZOI used to spread around Kusari and somewhat into the Sigmas and not Bretonia. I feel like that's the source of my discontent. Suddenly, one day, the QCP show up in Omega 49 yelling about Planet Cork and killing Zoners. I'm not saying this roleplay is a bad thing, I'm not even saying that the QCP shouldn't do this kind of thing. But, guys, you stepped on people's toes. You didn't write up anything and you didn't get together with the locale leaders. In short, you didn't think this through. That's all I'm gonna say on the matter.
And where, might I add, am I gonna get a Privateer to chase around with my pitchfork? Hm?