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+--- Thread: Order Gunship (/showthread.php?tid=26587)
Order Gunship - Grimly - 09-15-2009
DID YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE HATHOR ?!?
Try to tell me the corsairs are advantaged, just try !
We are still at war against outcasts, hessians, bretonia, SCRA, BHG ... Yes, we fight BHGs too. We face that damned untouchable gunship too.
What you missed is that only few players know how to use it. I may know 3 or 4 players using it well.
Quote:- but the BHG GS is troubled by a lack of energy for its weapons and a severe lack of choice of weapons / firepower. -
Jinx, for the first time, I 100% disagree with you. The BHG GS is just the best ship of its class. The standard turrets make it deadly, it can even get the 1Missile/2Pulse/3Razor setup with a high regen rate that make it the best if you have good gunner skills.
Nevertheless, it's good as it is since his use ask way lot of skills most of people don't have. 6 guns backward/4 gun forward are a problem no-one said the solution and no-one should say it.
When you come to fight a LH bomber + LH GS without using even a nanobot alone in a BHG GS, you know this ship have to be nerfed, much more than what we all say about bombers, something like reducing energy capacity to 2/3 of actual.
Order Gunship - n00bl3t - 09-15-2009
' Wrote:Bombers are overwhelming in this mod, its not the caps that are weak:)- true bombers are probably Sekhmet type craft. /end of possible flame start
I don't think we need a new Gunboat as Order, we need new approach to its use. Hathors shall be used as anti cap support craft with their razors and all that. It has a point in use.
What Order suck (actually it is normal, its the other craft that sux in means of overpowered) is the small craft, especially the bombers.
Now, its best to be objective, we all love our factions and cannot stand anything that opposes it, we have 127321731723 examples posted around these forums.
However;
- Bombers and VHFs shall have specific roles. Order Bombers and VHFs are greatly designed and fitting to this role perfectly. Other faction crafts... like the Nommie bomber or BHG bomber are way too agile to be a bomber, removing the necessity of a VHF as well as ensuring a possible dogfight wing against an Order craft.
It is why people in Order are more and more into capital ships. If you cannot kill anything with a Bastet or Nephy or Sekhmet before becoming an epic hotshot, its pointless to play. It gets out of being fun and turns into a military academy.
Sincerely, I think Order has the best BS if used correctly and a very good upper class design of ships. The lower class design (smaller) is also perfect and what it should be in means of Bomber / VHF balance.
Its the OTHER FACTIONAL SHIPS that need degrading. Especially the bombers who are like tanks with F-16 agility.
Well, I did not want to gravitate towards the "BHG bombers turn like a flea" argument for the GS.
You pretty much implied it.
Eh.
Order Gunship - JIVA - 09-15-2009
@Turkish: well - do you wanne do it?
while i am certain that there are hidden polygons and all the stuff there ( don t really "clean" the models ) - it has little to no impact on the playability or the size of the mod.
if you wanne clean / replace it - feel free. but i don t see a reason for that at this time. - i m sorry.
@Grimly:
"What you missed is that only few players know how to use it. I may know 3 or 4 players using it well." ( sorry for picking a single quote )
if that is true - than one can hardly place any nerf upon a ship for only 3 or 4 that mastered it. - the gunship is not smaller than the old corellian patrol thingy when it had 6 guns. - and while people complained a lot about it when it was the bhg 4.84 backbone and countless mercs also thought it was theirs to use - it wasn t any trouble when it was still the rogues gunboat in 4.83 and before. ( it was a few percent larger - but nothing really significant )
however - that is not about the BHG gunship... the BHG gunship is balanced - and i am convinced about it. we haven t taken this ship lightly when we balanced 4.85 - you can be sure, with all the BHG bias in 4.84 - we had to be very very very VERY cautious with balancing this ship.
but this is about the order. - - i do not believe that a hathor cannot destroy a BHG GS or orca when both pilots have a good skill and anti-gunboat equipment. - and no, i won t come online to have a go, cause i am a terrible gb pilot.
but these gunboats were tested so many times - they ARE balanced - and the order can beat any bhg ship, and vice versa. - it depends on numbers, equipment, luck and skill.
either way - if another modeller wants to make an order gunship equal or similar to the small and agile gunboats - i ll gladly agree to have the hathor replaced ( i won t support the use of the hathor AND an agile gunboat ) - and i am sure the hathor can go back to the zoners with a good deal of logical and reasonable RP background. ( which i am sure - will make zoners pretty happy, too )
Order Gunship - n00bl3t - 09-15-2009
' Wrote:@Turkish: well - do you wanne do it?
while i am certain that there are hidden polygons and all the stuff there ( don t really "clean" the models ) - it has little to no impact on the playability or the size of the mod.
if you wanne clean / replace it - feel free. but i don t see a reason for that at this time. - i m sorry.
Aidan, let us make that pyramid triangle I talked about.
I can see it now.
*Imagines.*
Order Gunship - JIVA - 09-15-2009
alright - i had a thought about the whole subject. - so i ve changed my opinion about it.
i m still convinced that the order should not have two gunboats. - but if the order ( and for that, i d refer to the official faction ) agrees that they rather need a small and agile gunboat of aproximately BHG GS level ( not exactly that small - cause that d be a nightmare to balance again )
i ll agree to revise the model + the concept.
at the same time, i d redesign the zoner gunboat, cause that will most probably undergo minor changes anyway - so that as a roleplay basis, the zoners would call the hathor design back and merge the conference and the hathor into one new zoner gunboat.
if the order faction agrees with that - i d like to know what specifications should be applied to an order gunboat. ( concerning the general shape ( vertical / horizontal / tube / short or long etc. )
Order Gunship - darthbeck - 09-15-2009
' Wrote:Look at the factions that The <strike>Order</strike> bretonian armed forces are at war with - primarily the kusarians. they have small, agile vessels, and our gunboat currently doesnt stand a chance in that kind of environment. It was a stupid idea to give the <strike>order</strike> BAF a cruiser-sized gunboat to begin with.
I like how our gunboat looks, but no amount of aesthetics will change the fact that it sucks.
[/offtopictrolling]
but you guys have a fine gunboat. it's only flaw is that it is a heavy gunboat.
Order Gunship - Denelo - 09-15-2009
' Wrote:at the same time, i d redesign the zoner gunboat, cause that will most probably undergo minor changes anyway - so that as a roleplay basis, the zoners would call the hathor design back and merge the conference and the hathor into one new zoner gunboat.
Have to jump in here. Please, don't touch my Conference unless you're going to make a new hitbox for it, make its cargo bigger or maaaybe (although this might not make much sense) add one more gun. It's a beautiful ship, and surprisingly, it can still hold its own in the rare instances that it actually has to fight. I use mine as a heavy freighter (not that it earns much, but that's not the point), and it performs admirably.
In other words, don't try to fix what isn't broken. It's not a Freeport defense ship, and has no business being heavy; light ships can avoid hostilities, which of course makes sense for the Zoners. My two cents on that matter.
Alright. Continue.
Order Gunship - cobraSting - 09-15-2009
IMO remove the Carrier and add the gunship. Perhaps remove the gunboat too.
EDIT: I recently dled the development stuffz. I'l try it out for Order funboat if I figure out how to get it working.
Order Gunship - Tenacity - 09-15-2009
' Wrote:IMO remove the Carrier and add the gunship. Perhaps remove the gunboat too.
EDIT: I recently dled the development stuffz. I'l try it out for Order funboat if I figure out how to get it working.
Remove my carrier? I dont think so =P
Order Gunship - Sprolf - 09-15-2009
' Wrote:We are still at war against outcasts, hessians, bretonia, SCRA, BHG ... Yes, we fight BHGs too. We face that damned untouchable gunship too.
Damnit, man, you're forgetting the Mollies.
I can't imagine why people keep misplacing their memories us all the time.