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+---- Thread: Police Vs Navy (/showthread.php?tid=83410)
Police Vs Navy - Sarawr!? - 07-07-2012
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Having at one point been a Deputy Chief in the LPI player faction, and now currently being a Vice Admiral in the [LN] player faction, I'm quite familiar with both sides of the Police v Military argument.
The Military factions -should- be focusing on warfighting and defending borders, but because of pirates flying heavily armed ships, including Capital ships, the Military is -needed- to 'police' House core space.
Police factions should be doing things like watching tradelanes and catching smugglers, but since that's boring often times, nobody wants to do that, SO the Military ID's and Police ID's wind up being pretty similar.
Hunting Pirates and Terrorists in space is NOT like hunting common criminals in a city or something.
Space law enforcement should ideally, and entirely be a Military matter (And would be anywhere else). But because of the way FL is, you can't have Police and Military Factions doing different things.
It's my opinion therefore, that unless a pirate is in a light or medium fighter craft, hunting them should be a Military matter.
While we can't actually wander around on planets, remember that inRP, people live on these planets, and that's where the Police presence would be the highest. You wouldn't see Liberty Navy people policing the streets of Manhattan, you'd see LPI people doing that.
But again, because we can't actually do that, the LN and LPI wind up doing a lot of the same things, because for example, LPI players don't wanna be bored and sit in the border areas the whole time watching for smugglers, because that's boring xD.
SO, they wind up doing the same things as the LN.
Now I'll actually take a side here and give an example, on my LN, if somebody tells me that say, somebody stole something, I'm gonna shrug them off and tell them that I'm a Soldier, not a cop, unless they stole a military ship or something.
It's hard to find 'common crimes' in Space, because it's mostly pirates or terrorists in heavily armed, high tech ships of war.
That's why Police and Military factions wind up doing the same stuff.
Most of the 'Common crimes' only happen if somebody comes up and says "OH NO SOMEBODY STOLE ALL OF THE X, Y, Z from A, B, C, call the cops!" or something
But in practice, the military and police factions wind up doing the same stuff.
It should be different, but it isn't, and it won't ever be, because Police and Military faction players don't want to bite a bullet and limit themselves to certain activities because "That's boring" or whatever.
Anyway, the Military and Police factions both serve a purpose, and if there's no Police around, then yes, the Military factions do often times pick up the slack.
Honestly though, I'm of the opinion that Space Police factions should be rolled into their Respective house military factions.
That's what people seem to forget
Planetary Policing =/= Space Policing. It's totally different, with totally different threats and circumstances.
You wouldn't see the Police hunting Pirates or Terrorists on the high seas in real life, It doesn't make -any sense-.
But it'll continue to happen here, because it's a game, and everyone needs something to do.
OH, I forgot, one thing you'll see the LPI do that the LN doesn't do, is harass people about 'broken lights' and the like. Also they'll often times try to clear up 'traffic jams' (A bunch of ships just hanging out doing nothing).
Dunno, if I had my way, the LPI would be looking for Smugglers and hunting low class pirates, and the LN would be fighting wars, hunting terrorists and putting down pirate warships, and stopping embargo breakers (And smugglers coming across the borders).
But yeah, ultimately it comes down to, given the way FL is, there's no way for the House military and House police factions to be limited in their roles without somebody being mad about it.
And if anything, the Militaries shouldn't be limited in where they go in their own space, since ffs, they're the -military-. It's their job to secure the territories of their nation.
Again, Space =/= to planetside stuff.
Oh and, in US territorial waters, the United States Coast Guard intercepts drug smugglers and people smugglers all the time, before they reach ConUS (Continental United States).
I voted no, by the way.
Police Vs Navy - Ipuvaepe - 07-07-2012
' Wrote:In reality the military wouldn't consider drug traffic/contraband their problem unless it occurs in enemy territory they currently occupy.I understand that, but it is not relevant. Reality metaphors are simply off topic as they do not have much bearing on disco.
But since it seems people are going to pull RL metaphors anyway, the Navy plays a much different role in discovery, since we have no Posse Comitatus Act here. Even in the USA, we have MPs that assist in DUI checkpoints (albeit in non-law enforcement roles, like administering field sobriety tests supervised by LEOs).
Police Vs Navy - Quorg - 07-08-2012
I support eliminating house police as separate factions. They serve no distinct purpose.
Police Vs Navy - ryoken - 07-08-2012
I would vote yes, but i never see any police. So i had to vote no, or no one would enforce laws.
Police Vs Navy - Snoozzzer - 07-08-2012
[font=Comic Sans Ms]Voted yes, because in an ideal disco that would be possible. More realistically however, dun care. I play nicer towards cops on pirate chars, and ignore pirates and smugglers on my navy chars (or in the rare case that an LPI- is online, pm them)
DELETE - SnakThree - 07-08-2012
DELETE
Police Vs Navy - Hone - 07-08-2012
I voted no despite being in the BPA, and no naval factions.
What you guys seem to be forgetting is that this is set in space. SPACE! Not on a planet, not in a quaint country village, this is on the frontier, it makes perfect sense for the navy to have more presence than the police in SPACE.
Planetside, it may be all police doing, well, "policing".
Police Vs Navy - Sarawr!? - 07-08-2012
Hone you said it.
This is set primarily in Space. Pirates in Gunboats are nothing like bank robbers in a getaway car.
They are a legitimate military problem.
As far as levying fines and such though, I would agree that Police factions should be levying fines, not military factions, but if military factions were forbidden to levy fines just imagine what would happen.
The alternative to making somebody pay a fine, is destroying them, and that would generate copious amounts of Q_Q if military players just destroyed everyone.
:D
So yes, in short, picture space as a nation's territorial waters, with planets as a nation's land.
In a nation's territorial waters, the military is responsible for security and law enforcement.
On the continent, police forces are responsible for such.
Police Vs Navy - Wafellini - 07-08-2012
on one hand yes...since Military is not there to put fines and chase the criminals and smugglers - they can assist in catching those - they can assist police to fight off the criminals but they shouldn't be going around and stopping those who break the law - they are there to fight the invaders and secure our borders.
on other hand - police factions aren't THAT active OR SKILLED in PvP to handle most of criminal activity by themselves - Without a support from the Military they would fail to secure and protect their space. So yeah RPwise - Military shouldn't be going around and chasing smugglers and criminals - gameplay-wise without Military help , police would have a lot of problems to solve the problems by themselves.
So I vote for Yes - leave it to police to handle those BUUUUT I don't fully agree on Military completly stepping down from dealing with criminals.
Police Vs Navy - Sarawr!? - 07-08-2012
Another problem is that say you take away certain things from Police and Military factions.
If you take away patrolling core space from military factions, players will become uninterested, as warfighting (even if it happened more, is -not- fun to do constantly)
And if you took away the ability to hunt terrorists and larger pirates from Police players, they'd become uninterested.
SO, while I voted no, I'd support if nothing else, leaving things the way they are.