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+--- Thread: raven claw - too strong? (/showthread.php?tid=968)
raven claw - too strong? - Jamez - 05-05-2006
Well I think that you guys should listen to an outsider's point of view.
I think the problem here is, that nearly everyone has a Raven Claw and doesn't want it made less maneuverable/armor etc., even if it is unbalanced.
Which I think it is.
raven claw - too strong? - Fellow Hoodlum - 05-05-2006
Jamez, not necessarily a good point. The regulars who play here I hope do so because
they enjoy the mod, and the people. To come in and immediately criticise it probably
means Ole Newb here aint going to be around long, because he obviously doesn't.
And not everyone has a Raven ..... I still see more Talons.
Hoodlum :P
raven claw - too strong? - Angel - 05-05-2006
Ladys, does anyone ever read Info on this stuff, seriously, theres a reason why it has 8 guns and a torp mount.
Its an ASSAULT FIGHTER!!!, that would mean its for assaulting Capital class ships and crap like that, Yes its agility needs work, but its the Fighter mans Anti-Capital ship weapon.
raven claw - too strong? - Jamez - 05-05-2006
Lets face it, ppl are gonna use all those guns on an enemy fighter. Which gives it a BIG advantage.
Also if u want an anti-capship fighter, y not just get a bomber?
raven claw - too strong? - Korrd - 05-05-2006
Quote:i was talking about the titan here, but anyway if you replace your rh bomber with titan you would have been dead in somewhare between 1/4 to 1/2 of the time since you would have 1/2 less hull and 1/2 less nanobots/batteries and without much gain in agility and firepower with the titanThose ships dont perform nearly the same. In fact they are way too different.
rh bomber is also more than 3 times expensive than the slipstream too, which is pretty wrong for 2 ships that perform nearly the same, however, prices isnt such a big deal compared to balance in game mechanics
The RH bomber has 3 times more firepower than a slipstream. But a Slipstream is far more maneuverable than the Bomber.
But Nesa is an expert at light fighters, and im an expert with bombers.
I have very good accuracy, and he knows how to evade weapons fire.
He can hit my ships 3 times more than i can hit his. But 1 of my hits is equal to many of him.
So, in a fight between two elite pilots, the differences of the ships are not that important, because they know how to avoid their weaknesses from being exploited by the other.
As an example, i cant avoid his shoots, nor outmaneuver him.
So i use a maneuver which allows me to hit him while reciving little fire from him. No, It is imposible for me to get his tail, So i do a frontal attack. By the time he fired me enough to lower my shields, ive already pwn his hull. That means that he cant withstand a frontal attack and has to evade the incoming fire, and while evading like crazy he has little chance to fire an accurate shoot. And as i dont need to evade because his accuracy goes down then i can fire on him quite accurately.
Now, that is the way a pilot fights. By strategy. All ships in this mod have pros and cons. Its up to you to get a ship you are comfortable to use and is effectve for the kind of job you want to do.
By general rule, the weaker the armor / firepower, the more maneuverable is. and vice versa.
So, those ships that look like unbalanced, are not that unbalanced. they have weaknesses. Its up to you to find them in order to exploit them.
raven claw - too strong? - marauder - 05-05-2006
Great, Angels angry at someone (i hope) and jamez has a good point.
But the point is the bomber HAS to use at least one of its torp mounts do kill a BS. where as the raven claw doesn't because it's got 2 more weapon mounts with which to pound the BS with.
Korrd has a good point too, but their is no way a class 9 LF can kill the templars that fly with britonian destroyers (at least on it's own) because it's weapons just can't do enough damage fast enough.
You can either rip their shield away and then spent ages trying to finish them off or spend ages trying to get thru their shield. I know this for a fact because I tried it with both the liberator and a wrym.
raven claw - too strong? - poor_newb - 05-05-2006
Korrd,May 5 2006, 02:58 PM Wrote:Those ships dont perform nearly the same. In fact they are way too different.
The RH bomber has 3 times more firepower than a slipstream. But a Slipstream is far more maneuverable than the Bomber.
But Nesa is an expert at light fighters, and im an expert with bombers.
I have very good accuracy, and he knows how to evade weapons fire.
He can hit my ships 3 times more than i can hit his. But 1 of my hits is equal to many of him.
So, in a fight between two elite pilots, the differences of the ships are not that important, because they know how to avoid their weaknesses from being exploited by the other.
As an example, i cant avoid his shoots, nor outmaneuver him.
So i use a maneuver which allows me to hit him while reciving little fire from him. No, It is imposible for me to get his tail, So i do a frontal attack. By the time he fired me enough to lower my shields, ive already pwn his hull. That means that he cant withstand a frontal attack and has to evade the incoming fire, and while evading like crazy he has little chance to fire an accurate shoot. And as i dont need to evade because his accuracy goes down then i can fire on him quite accurately.
Now, that is the way a pilot fights. By strategy. All ships in this mod have pros and cons. Its up to you to get a ship you are comfortable to use and is effectve for the kind of job you want to do.
By general rule, the weaker the armor / firepower, the more maneuverable is. and vice versa.
So, those ships that look like unbalanced, are not that unbalanced. they have weaknesses. Its up to you to find them in order to exploit them.
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so whats raven's/talon's weakness that "can be exploited"?
edit: oh and if you like to talk about the slipstream, compare it with the other house light fighters, there is really no contest for which is better
raven claw - too strong? - Dab - 05-05-2006
Slightly weak hull. They are less than most VHFs. I think the Blood Dragon actually needs a bit MORE agility as every VHF other than the Titan can still outmanuever it yet its hull is quite low. This would also need changed on the Chimaera as they are basicly the same fighter. The agility doesn't need to be upped too much though as it shouldn't be as agile as an eagle.
People if you want to complain about the Raven being too manuverable try judging turns with an eagle. The eagle's turns are ALOT more tight and quicker. The Raven really isn't that much of an agile ship. The Talon is quite manuverable but not as much as an Eagle either. But if it's turret shoots forward maybe it whould have slightly reduced agility to balance it out.
raven claw - too strong? - Virus - 05-05-2006
Ok... Here's my thoughts on this....
Raven should (and will be) slowed a touch.
Talon should (and might be) slowed less than a touch.
MKII House fighters and Border worlds fighters are much easier to kil due to the frame. I.e., blow their "wings" off and they lose weapons. THe Raven, you have to actually destroy the weapons. To do so, you need about 15 Cannonballs.... It takes 10+ to kill a Slipstream, 2 to kill most other fighters.
Slipstream I never liked, but that's just because it has almost no hit box. I probably would be good in one myself, but I like the Wyrm better.
Perhaps an increase of the hull of ships with frames by 100-200 points to balance out the fact that more ships have no frames, and, therefore, nothing to blow off, therefore, harder to kill.
Did I make any sense here?...
raven claw - too strong? - Dab - 05-05-2006
Virus,May 5 2006, 05:38 PM Wrote:Did I make any sense here?...
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What? Virus making sense?! It can't be! (jking)
I never have liked the slipstream either mainly due to the lack of a wireframe model making it just too good.
Also wireframes are also effected by lasers differently. The different parts (ie: a wing) that can be blown off will cuase major dmg if and when they are blown off and also a subtle difference in overall dmg.