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+--- Thread: Capital Ship Point Defense (/showthread.php?tid=17826)
Capital Ship Point Defense - koolkevz - 03-22-2009
So what the capital ship players are asking for is longer reaching weapons to attack bombers and fighters right well I do have a question. Torp's seem to be slow moving weapons and so shooting them from a range that is outside of the turrets of a cap should leave them a sizable flight time before hitting the target so why don't you try shooting down the torpedo rather than the bomber I mean if I had to launch a large amount of torps to wipe out a battleship then I would be worried about the cost as to help this I say raise the price of torpedoes as that way you also make bomber pilots think about if they will use a torp against a fighter as the cost of buying a new one could make it inefficent.
Capital Ship Point Defense - Guest - 03-22-2009
Ahh, but i see that. Yet at the same time, for most (me included) balance is if WE win..barely. Then its balance. To translate the point above into a more...brutal way, is, that there is no such thing as balance. If you want balance, give a gun that is a one hit kill and has a 7k/sec, so, both the cap can hit the bomber and vise versa. Then its balance as both can kill eachother with relevate ease, the size withstanding.
Well..look at it this way. If you give the solaris a speed of 1k a sec and increese the range to 4k, it would still take four seconds to hit the target..noone flys a straight line so long.
Well..look. What i see here is just people who had a bad day and blame the weapons. Ive seen xenos diced and added to the scrap field by a LNS flacks and an OC dessies solaris turrets without only a few SNs from their side. The weapons are fine enough, its just that we need to get used to them.
Capital Ship Point Defense - Jinx - 03-22-2009
"What i see here is just people who had a bad day and blame the weapons."
it would be very sad if that is all you can see. - its quite discouraging for someone that is trying to find a balance when you express that all that person is trying to do it to find a cheap way to win a fight that is in the first place already balanced.
that makes the revision process a process of bias and cheating.
here is a short experience i had today...:
i was flying a civi bomber with 15 nova shots left, no bats, no bots - cause i had a pvp vs. a crusader ( or somethign fishlike anyway ) before.
i encountered a rogue destroyer.
in a most ooRP manner, i decided to attack it, cause from the previous encounter - most of my weapons were heavily damaged anyway - and i wanted to go down in a fight rather than repair them for millions.
so i attacked - i stared firing the novas at 1.5k while the destroyer tried to close the distance. - once i started to half heartedly dodge and fly circles, he did not hit anything critical at all anymore - i could dictate the combat. - i can increase the distance if i like - i can close up to. - i didn t even have to switch my brain on to fire my novas - yet... half of them hit automaticly.
in the mid of the fight - i went linkdead - and was blown up. all the time that i had control, evading weaponfire was no problem at all... firing the novas required no skill at all.
of course - during the whole fight - some things were clear from the very beginning...
- the destroyer had no chance hitting an activly moving target, cause he hadd only primaries
- i had no chance killing it, cause i only had the nova and 15 shots left
so yes - when the destroyer have had faster guns, it might have been different. - it might also have been different if i have had all my weapons and a supernova instead of only a nova.
was the capital ship pilot unskilled? - i don t think so, he tried to aim, he tried to spray, he tried to close up - and he tried to dodge / evade the torpedos. - is the civi bomber an easy target? - dunno, but it feels fairly agile
oh - and i have spent quite some time with the weapons already. - i even made the suggestions for the base concept - but a live situtation on a real server beats any theory and any closed beta server.
but all that means nothing when you re convinced that those that speak up for the capital ships weapons only want to win... .
Capital Ship Point Defense - koolkevz - 03-23-2009
Lets say that we increased the damage on the main anti-fighter turrets that capital ships use and they can now effectivly engage and destroy bombers won't that then bring on a new thread where Bomber pilots will complain about the fact that they are now useless as they are unable to attack a capital ship without being destroyed?
Capital Ship Point Defense - Guest - 03-23-2009
That's balance for you, make it good for the caps, bombers whine, make it good for bombers, caps whine, make it good for both, both will whine.
Capital Ship Point Defense - hribek - 03-23-2009
I believe this topic is in dire need of two things.
1) add one word to the topic title - it shouldn't be "Capital Ship Point Defense" but "Capital Ship Point Defense Usage"
2) lock.
Capital Ship Point Defense - Lunaphase - 03-24-2009
Well thing is, Anti fighter guns are suposed to follow this theory: Crap on caps, decent against bombers. now, consider that the weapon most commonly used, (SNAC) CANT be shot down. leaves no option but to try to kill the bomber before they kill you. now, consider this. a bombers range with torps is usualy around 400m on a gunboat. about 700 or so for a cruiser, since its much larger and less nimble. you can fire about 1k out from any battleship, since SNAC you dont have to worry about ammo. on the capital side, the guy cant hit you because you dart out of range of solaris and secondarys... but at same time his primarys rotate slow as heck. (BS secondarys rotate faster than cruiser primarys, for the record) frankly, the bomber has a much easyer time with it, since it can just fire off a SNAC and doge like crazy. the capital CANT, since its slower and cant cover more than one angle of fire. most bombers have the armor to withstand a full salvo or even two, and if your getting hit with primary salvos, your not dodging. one or two cruiser shots every now an then wont even dent a bombers abilitys, wheras a bomber can blow the guns off.
Capital Ship Point Defense - n00bl3t - 03-24-2009
' Wrote:I believe this topic is in dire need of two things.
1) add one word to the topic title - it shouldn't be "Capital Ship Point Defense" but "Capital Ship Point Defense Usage"
2) lock.
If you do not wish to discuss the issue, feel free to leave.
Also, the correct title would not be "Capital Ship Point Defense Usage", but "Capital Ship Point Defense Useless". Hence, it can only be hoped that you can live with the compromised title on there.
Capital Ship Point Defense - mjolnir - 03-24-2009
Secondaries always had 1750m range, maybe you haven't really used them yet?
Capital Ship Point Defense - n00bl3t - 03-25-2009
' Wrote:Anyways, about all that bomber talk.
If you truly believe your statement about the all powerness of bombers, I challenge you.. Find any bomber pilot, any at all, can be the best one on the server, and get him to fight my Nyx. And you shall see that I'll either beat him, or be close to it. And an average bomber pilot will plain and simple get creamed by a standard fighter pilot.
A bomber can pwn a fighter. Since it can, it was used as an example.
' Wrote:Pick any bomber pilot you want *winks on ench*, and I'll take any cruiser you pick, me as an occasional capship pilot. Then we shall see how this works.
Let me think.
' Wrote:Cam, this is directly related to you flying one of the largest battleships in the game. And also directly related to flying an RP-oriented ship.
Cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get the *bleep* over it. It's getting old, and all you are doing is proving us right in our knowledge of ship balance and your intelligence (or lack thereof).
Yes, we damn well could put 5k range solaris turrets in the game, but did you EVER stop and think about the effects on the other side? Did you think it would be fair to the people who prefer smaller ships if battleships were an ubermegaIpwntyoubcuzuranoob ship?
The fact of the matter is, it wouldn't be. It's not as easy as you think, which is probably why you were never good at it. Quit your crying and go back to your 4.82 server if you want, but you'll never get any further.
Also, I should say that this is an RP SERVER. Come on, battleships should be used more as a supply depot for fighters. They should be more defense than offense.
RP relates to PVP.
' Wrote:RP your way out, or are you too much of a PvP whore to understand?
YOU'RE A ZONER. YOU NO LIKEY PVP. YOU LIKEY PEACE AND THE BORDER WORLDS.
And on a side note, you live in the USA. Spell like it.
Yes. Patronising Cam will solve the situation. Well done. Labelling him a PVP whore because he does not agree with your viewpoints. Well done. Ignoring the fact that Zoners do have enemies, such as the Keepers, Das Wilde and the Harvesters. It would be nice to say priceless, but no, well done.
' Wrote:Maybe the powers that be are trying to tell you something.
The powers that be have included capital ships in this mod. The moment they do not want them to be used is the moment that they remove them from the mod.
' Wrote:No there isn't, because Cam stubbornly repeats his moronic and generally contradictory "bomber-whore" statements.
We've all tried to explain to him that caps can't be overpowered and that it's his fault he's in an uberhuge ship.
Explain how it is contradictory.
No, what he is saying is he should be able to return the favour in terms of damage. He currently cannot do that because his guns lack the range.
' Wrote:but yeah. stop wasting forum space and go play on a capwhore server or something.
:mellow:
' Wrote:I just fear the day when my fighter will be unable to enter a fight which includes other fighters and a cap if that cap's anti-fighter/bomber weapons are 100% effective.
It's easy to theorize it all, and it all works very nice in theory.
But when I think of the fact that 80% of fights I get in include enemy capital ships, what will come of me.. I dislike getting capraped you know.
And I believe it's good time I start whining too then, lest the cap preferers hog all the whining and get their way.
There, my first prejudicial statement. Feels good, I am finally integrated well into the community.:mellow:
Why say "cap preferers" instead of capwhores, when you are just going to accuse us of "caprape" anyway? Also, I would fear the day when capital ships are useless against fighters, but it is already here.
' Wrote:SP quote:
Libby Cruiser: " Those gunboats are too fast for our turrets!".
Now imagine how too fast fighters are..
A battleship should not even be able to hit a dodging fighter in my opinion, at least not with turrets.
Yes. Where Liberty Cruisers could destroy battleships, not get killed by bombers, join The Order and roam the Omicrons.
' Wrote:Now will you cap users please stop whining.
It is called a discussion, regardless of your inability to recognise that.