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+--- Thread: Corsair - Zoner (/showthread.php?tid=73664)
Corsair - Zoner - Doc Holliday - 02-07-2012
OK...I've been sitting out of this thread as I'm sick of the Zoner Zoner Zoner crap myself.......and I'm a Zoner!
The problem is that someone wants an RP method to get an OORP solution. Basically, it takes all of the Zoner factions, now only TAZ and OSI, to mutually agree on an FR5 on mentioned groups using Freeports to lead raids into Omicron Gamma. The mentioned groups to me were: The RHA, Mandolors and BHG. Do I want to do this? No but I do see the point.
In RP, Freeports are NOT a staging area but people use them for this purpose. So the Corsairs decide the best way for this RP method for an OORP solution is to pressure TAZ and OSI by blocking trade or destroying ships altogether to achieve these means. Stupid? In a way since TAZ has no real influence in those areas and OSI is kind of everywhere. Still, I see the point the Corsairs are trying to make.
Ya know, if people raided from their own bases (Freital isn't that far away in Omega 7 and Hunters could easily launch from 56, we wouldn't be having Zoner pew pew!
You will also notice that I'm letting someone else do the diplomacy RP for TAZ partially because as an Admin, I'll sit out of this so as to avoid claims of Zoner bias.
Corsair - Zoner - spikefin - 02-07-2012
' Wrote:corsairs getting angry for the cause yes, in rp
hessians allying with rheinland lawfuls+bounty hunters+every dog in sirius only to get pvp whoring... yes... sad but it is pvp whoring .
Im definatly not up with the RP of this one, But I have a logical comment
Not that im all for shooting anyone, Im very against it, Hence i choose zoner, Before and again.
So ship Wing (A) (Hessian?) Flys to raid Gamma
And ship wing (B) (Order?) Flys to raid gamma
And ship wing © (Bounty Hunters) fly to raid gamma
They all arrive at (X) point and go wthang, Were going Corsair hunting leave us be, No were going Corsair hunting leave us be.
Now if i was a commander of a war fleet in this situation, Logic to me, dictates, I can fight these 2 other fleets here and now, Maybe die, Maybie cripple my fleet but win, OR I can say, Hmm Corsairs you say, After you.
Did I allie? No, If a big as battleship comes at me and an outcast will i whistle waiting for it to blow up the outcast?
No I Kill the Corsairs, What I came to do, And hope and prey the Corsairs kill more Hessains and Outcast's then they do my fleet, The whole time laugthing about once the Corsairs are crippled, Outcasts (or Hessains) Will be next, Maybe Ill take a out of context gun cam image of a Outcasts weapon hitting a Hessan and anon transmit it to the OC.
As i say, thats logic, to me.
This guy on the simpsons who claims to be wise, once said.
A good commander wins battles.
A great commander Chooses which battles to win.
Its the simpsons, But it makes sence to me.
' Wrote:And please, for the love of god, if you're going to reply to something I wrote atleast make your text easy to read. It's not so hard to capitalise some letters, avoid ????????? or make some paragraphs. Your butchering of the english language is something that doesn't allow me to take you seriously.
Actually, for some of us it is that hard. Please reply to me in Chinese or Arabic and show me how well you do with a second language. Now I don't speak Chinese, Because its to hard, I only speak English because I have to, Its also very hard, infact from memory, one of the worlds hardest.
"blodo. just say me one more npc faction that was under attack 24/7... and yes 24/7.
maybe then you understand what is the difference."
Not NPC Faction, But try...
Transports
Miners
Ore Haulers
The difference is, When they complain (Yes i read those threads to) you guys that are saying this is unfair, pop in and tell THEM to grow som *****, Fight back, get over it.
' Wrote:Defenses are bad?
I know the quotes a bit out of context, Bear with me.
I dont know this for a fact, so someone feel free to correct me, But Corsairs cant see Corsair defences.
Why do I say this? Well I was flying my neutral zoner around the other day nice and peaceful like, Then this other guy (BH) came along and shot a Corsair NPC, Then all these ships simply apeared, Big Big ships, and he killed and killed, you know what though, Those big Corsair tagged ships didn't stop coming, then he perished.
Saw the same thing with nomads. (First hand this time, They attacked me and an order battleship, but more apeared and attacked us faster than we could kill and defend ourselfs, We vacated that area quickly.
' Wrote:There is the other thread with the warmongering Zoners declaring neutrality something of the past - is that supposed to be taken seriously?
Yes, Under one condition, Those zoners return to the places of there forefathers and take on new ID's IMO, They are free to stray from the zoner way, the only consequence would be, that this no longer renders them zoners. From war and hostility zoners came, and to war and hostility they can return, but not as zoners IMO.
"or removal of all turret hardpoints on Zoner caps so neutrality and diplomacy is no longer an option, but a forced path."
Um, I may have understood the lore wrong, But zoner ships are supposed to be real big and real powerful, Not so we can kill people, but to deter them from trying it on.
I Haven't shot 1 Corsair BH or any other faction, As a zoner, Ever in my life. (NPC's for repping correct zoner rep excluded) and even that I hate, I absolutely HATE opening my player profile and seeing "fighters killed" How ever, I have had corsairs fire on me, and destroy my assets, Before and after these events. Also once or twice an Outcast, and a Rhineland ship. When the guns start blazing, I sigh, and jump into the escape pod, im outta there before my shields are even down. Some players will never allow Neutrality, no matter what zoners give up, removing defensive capabilities simply would "Retard" the ability's of zoners to defend themselves, some zoners like defending themselves.
"I might not agree with the Corsair side either, but at least their burning hatred and vicious behaviour in and out of rp falls within the boundaries of what the Corsairs are supposed to be like"
First, I really like when you speak, Very thought provoking. I disagree with both sides (I being a zoner) But I do understand why some zoners are breaking RP (IMO) they were forced to, Corsairs (TBH mainly) under the rule of an admin (Yes that's relevant, People look up to admins even if there not using green text) Declared all out hostility on zoners, the Corsairs I played with warned me of this while ignoring there council and TBH, To this day i still get told "We dont mind, but if you see a TBH run, run for your life"
TBH made zoner life an impossibility, they forced hostility on us, with us having no acceptable way of retaliating, the leading admins response was to put diplomatic pressure on the factions... Diplomacy takes time, zoners cant ring the factions and have a yarn about current events and work it out before there ship is destroyed. An attack in the rules is sheilds sub 50%, This means a zoner cant lawfully return fire until his defensive capability is retarded. I addressed this problem by logging out of the game whenever TBH were online and coming to the forums, Look at my forum join date, then how many posts I had prior to TBH, Only the occasional "Help my char broke" or "I cant play Disco for X reason"
Were is the RP leading to this? I asked the admin, The admin said go read ooc/oorp theres enougth treads about it there, then linked me secure corsairs comms links....
And i use the word admin because thats how i see it, I dont see a player like you or me, The player is flying an admin banner, and thats what i personally see, just like all the admins, dosn't matter if there chatting about daisy's I still see the admin tag, and I expect, what they say to be correct, Fair, and for the better of the intire community, I expect there RP to be way better than mine, because mine blatantly is lacking.
"Elect some leaders and let yourselves be governed by those who are capable."
That used to be the way, I recently asked a Corsair to explain why they didn't like this way, Im lead to beleive, in my absence, the corsairs were significantly responsible for the termination of the council. I love your Idea, Loved the council, But obviously (From what im told) The corsairs had just as big a problem with it.
"globalplayer-svk" Your post, is the zoner ID, so i wont quote it, Your pretense as i understand it is that zoners can only attack in defence.
Isnt it american footbal Federation that often says "Sometimes the best defence is a good offence" Its called pro-active defence, Its fair to assume the corsairs mean to harm zoners, they made a big deal about saying so, so zoners realising the end result of any TBH interaction is (By there roleplay) Being shot, They pre-empt it, This is real world and RP, Not that i support it. If someone pointed a gun at you, IRL and said im going to shoot you, Would you wait to see if they were being truthful? Reasonable Belief in the unavoidable attack is IMO a attack, The guy pulls a gun, You hide behind a dumpster and throw a rock, Was what you did so unfair?
RE: Kudos
"The fact that their is almost none says something rather bad about BOTH sides."
Your 100% right, I don't see much good feeling about these events. I certainly have very little, Wait.. none, but i will go post a kudos (Now i know that exists) for the Corsairs who are ignoring the Council and TBH in a chunk of my Timezone, allowing me to get a small amount of flytime.
"You will also notice that I'm letting someone else do the diplomacy RP for TAZ partially because as an Admin, I'll sit out of this so as to avoid claims of Zoner bias."
Barely knowing you I respect you alot but that statement.... That is sooooo WOW! I mean really... Your a legend. A true Blue Legend. The only thing that blows me away more is Zelot, Causing a large chunk of this while flying an admin badge.
Corsair - Zoner - DarthBindo - 02-07-2012
' Wrote:Rhyme is sitting in an air vent with his hands over his ears with a couple of sandwiches and some empty mason jars getting ready for the TAZ to crash a juggy into FP9 as a demonstration of loyalty to the Corsairs.Those squishy things?
not sandwiches
' Wrote:I beg you, Dusty, please don't stain "Omicroners" with such bad and not even in the slightest approximate substitution.Yeah, you're classy all right.
They're lacking class to be fitting.
' Wrote:-snip-One doesnt need an FR5 to all Zoners. We've repeatedly stated that.
If the selected parties are banned from docking at the particular base after violating whatever restrictions put in place, and they go ahead and dock anyways, it's a 6.10 violation.
' Wrote:-snip-Except they don't do that.
What they do is come back day after day and shoot nothing but Corsairs.
It's not that we're fighting three factions. That's managable.
But we're fighting the playerbases of two large factions and one minor faction, and then you add in BOTH of the official merc companies and a pirate gang, and you end up with a lot of players attacking a (also significant but much smaller) number of players.
What makes it even worse (we did just fine with the outcast raids) is that we have nowhere to raid back.
Where do we go to raid Hessians? Raid the Mandalorians? Raid the Reavers?
Where exactly do they spend time in analogous to Gamma?
Omega -7?
Pfft then we face IMG+Hessians+RM+Kruger+Mercs, hardly fit for a raid of any sourt.
As for spending time in the OMegas.......what does one do in Omicron Theta? In omega-41? In any of the omegas besides 3 and 7 besides sit around and wait and wait and wait.
The hessians don't spend any more time there than we do, the SCRA doesn't have any indies so they're little more than 20 (if that many) guys, Das wilde is another small faction, the Phantoms are gone, even the Zoners don't go down to Porto Novo or spend much time in -49.............
There's no trade there, and those systems are all out of the direct route from Gamma to the pirating systems and Rheinland, so there's no activity.
Corsair - Zoner - Riebezagel - 02-07-2012
' Wrote:[...]
Yeah, you're classy all right.
[...]
dude, especially you can not judge this.
Corsair - Zoner - DodgeOld24 - 02-07-2012
' Wrote:encourage other sairs to go somewhere elseI try this, but it's sort of a dick move to not go help your team, at least that's how I see it. And it's not exactly role fitting to run away from an attack on your home system, while you can easily help defending it.
' Wrote:Home system =/= Safe heavenTheoretically.
Corsair - Zoner - spikefin - 02-07-2012
' Wrote:One doesnt need an FR5 to all Zoners. We've repeatedly stated that.
What they do is come back day after day and shoot nothing but Corsairs.
I can't actually say I feel sorry for you, or care particularly (Bear with me) This sounds very rude i agree, But heres the issue in my view.
Go read all the posts (I probably missed some)
Your (IMO) Biggest issue began when the TBH stepped up, And so very many people lumped all Corsairs together, Go read alot of my posts, I commonly regard the Terrorists or Corsairs. I commonly even in official comms (were IMO you play the zoner tagged Corsair, litrally, I didnt realise you were flying a zoner comms ID till the next day.) State that I know to many good Corsairs who ignore the council/TBH I even did it in the post above this one.
What then made that worse, was "Corsair reps" Announcing "110% support for TBH" over and over.
Thats when (IMO) as I read all these topics (I have one of these topics myself) things changed drasticly.
TBH and some Corsairs (For some reason i remember you being one of them(I may be wrong)) Made zoner playing intolerable. Some zoners saw red, and reacted.
If Corsairs said get out to TBH, and didnt tie in "Demands" with TBH, and only TBH played out this "zoner crushing" I personally believe, Alot of people would be hunting the TBH, And would understand the difference between the TBH, the few zoners supporting them, The council, And all the other Corsair players.
My first statement
"I can't actually say I feel sorry for you, or care particularly "
I defiantly remember you cared little for how badly TBH ruined my gameplay.
I defiantly remember how when I first asked wthang is going on, all i got was smart replys mostly from people I later identified as Corsairs.
I definatly remember all the other WTHang posts i read, were people were also shot down, corsair AND zoner alike.
I do feel sorry for, and care about, The Corsairs and zoners who had this forced upon them. Theres a post around here I made (Was in a fearless in Gamma) Now fearless.... Transporter dosn't hold up against Corsair guns (Also missed the lockdown memo) TBH were around all Corsairs in the post are very "Pro Corsair, Haha NOOB" ect, which phases me not.
12 hours before that post, and 6 hours after that post, Guess were I was? Gamma, Guess what I was flying, Fearless, Guess what I was doing? Watching Corsairs shoot NPC BH there was Factions and non factioned Corsairs. Not one trouble maker, Nobody cared, Even the notorious nameremoved didn't care. And that guy has blowen me up twice before.
I take back Half of the negative stuff I said to you, Not being Nativly English, I tend to assosiate things not with words, I have been associating you with your avitar Image, I have just noticed, someone else has the exact same image.
It may not have been you, I apologise.
Ohh and I don't blame Corsairs.
From all ive read the blame lies like so IMO ((]o[)'s never denied things in threads i read, They can feel free to make it knowen the threads I have read are wrong)
TBH and (]o[)'s first Equal
TAZ and OSI Second Equal but only for self stated inactions. (I base that on my understanding of faction rules)
And my understanding (Please correct me) of how this transpired was like this.
Corsairs "Hey (]o[)'s we have a problem with X Please fix"
(]o[)'s or what?
Corsairs "Or we will attack you"
(]o[)'s lollllllol, our fp's cant die, no health bar
Corsairs "Attack"
Zoners QQ
Later
Corsairs "Hey zoners we have a problem again"
Zoners "zzzzZZZZzzzzzZZZZZ"
Corsairs "I SAID WE HAVE A PROBLEM"
TAZ and OSI "We dont mind, were over here, we will leave that upto (]o[)'s and indies, Lets keep playing over here and ignore it all"
(]o[)'s "Yeah... Ignoring you"
Indies "Hey you read forums?"
Indies "Nahhhh who cares, za la la la laaaa"
Corsairs "Now were fuming!!!!"
TBH "Lets go ooc/oorp have discussions and leave everyone in dark" (self suggested by TBH)
Other Party "How about, no, What? comeon, You cant be serious, Look how about, dang i give up"
TBH "I know, lets (Without actual RP) take this major action"
indies "Hey whats going on"
Corsairs "Hey we demand this!, do it now zoners, or else"
TBH "Pew Pew goto forums and read ooc"
Some Corsairs "Yay go TBH we support you"
zoners "Huh what? When? Were? Forum links? Comms? is this thing on"
TBH "Flex bicept, Pew Pew, Dont care how it impacts overs pew pew"
zoners "QQ... QQ.... QQ... ****angryface****"
zoners "so the corsairs want a fight! pew pew, Please help us"
others "A chance to pew pew, with premade RP, WERE COMING ZONERS!"
others "Pew pew pew"
TBH "Lets go walk over here and stay a bit quieter"
Corsairs "QQ... QQ... weres the RP this is wrong"
ME "Yup, just as wrong as the before mentioned acts without RP, Its all Wrong, So very very wrong"
Corsair - Zoner - Klaw117 - 02-07-2012
' Wrote:What makes it even worse (we did just fine with the outcast raids) is that we have nowhere to raid back.I think the Hessians are usually in Omega-54, so it's pretty hard to fight them in their own guard system. The same probably goes for the SCRA since I would expect Omega-52 to be equivalent to a guard system. I'm not sure about that though since I haven't been in Omega-52 in a long time. It's very hard to pinpoint the exact location of Hunters and mercenaries, so it's very hard to raid them as well.
Where do we go to raid Hessians? Raid the Mandalorians? Raid the Reavers?
Where exactly do they spend time in analogous to Gamma?
Omega -7?
Pfft then we face IMG+Hessians+RM+Kruger+Mercs, hardly fit for a raid of any sourt.
As for spending time in the OMegas.......what does one do in Omicron Theta? In omega-41? In any of the omegas besides 3 and 7 besides sit around and wait and wait and wait.
The hessians don't spend any more time there than we do, the SCRA doesn't have any indies so they're little more than 20 (if that many) guys, Das wilde is another small faction, the Phantoms are gone, even the Zoners don't go down to Porto Novo or spend much time in -49.............
There's no trade there, and those systems are all out of the direct route from Gamma to the pirating systems and Rheinland, so there's no activity.
The only ones we really can raid are the Outcasts in Omicron Alpha. However, in my experience, Outcasts tend to be sore losers. The last time I led a raid into Omicron Alpha, we kicked their butts, but then they march in to the southern Omicrons, repair any radiation damage at Freeport 9, and then start shooting back at us. That's fine and all, but then they turned that into a four hour long battle by dragging in the Hessians and a bunch of mercenaries. I think even the SCRA got involved at some point. In the end, despite our victory, the whole thing became more annoying than enjoyable and someone (Grimly I think) raged about it on the forums several months ago.
Plus, there's a general consensus that Corsair-Outcast battles should move back to the Sigmas, although that hasn't happened yet. I've also yet to see Corsair-Hessian battles move back into the Omegas even though they probably should. Can someone remind me why these haven't happened yet?
Corsair - Zoner - spikefin - 02-07-2012
' Wrote:I think the Hessians are usually in Omega-54, so it's pretty hard to fight them in their own guard system. The same probably goes for the SCRA since I would expect Omega-52 to be equivalent to a guard system. I'm not sure about that though since I haven't been in Omega-52 in a long time. It's very hard to pinpoint the exact location of Hunters and mercenaries, so it's very hard to raid them as well.
The only ones we really can raid are the Outcasts in Omicron Alpha. However, in my experience, Outcasts tend to be sore losers. The last time I led a raid into Omicron Alpha, we kicked their butts, but then they march in to the southern Omicrons, repair any radiation damage at Freeport 9, and then start shooting back at us. That's fine and all, but then they turned that into a four hour long battle by dragging in the Hessians and a bunch of mercenaries. I think even the SCRA got involved at some point. In the end, despite our victory, the whole thing became more annoying than enjoyable and someone (Grimly I think) raged about it on the forums several months ago.
Plus, there's a general consensus that Corsair-Outcast battles should move back to the Sigmas, although that hasn't happened yet. I've also yet to see Corsair-Hessian battles move back into the Omegas even though they probably should. Can someone remind me why these haven't happened yet?
no-clue I thought I read that the Corsair/Outcast war (Imposed by admin i read) was laugthed at, and Corsairs wern't playing puppet. Love to provide you the link with the posts in it, but i cant even find the thread im looking for.
I do know this (And i loll'd) yesterday there was a bunch of Corsairs pirateing (Fair enougth) as i passed by keeping my distance the Corsair demanded a tarrif of 500,000 sirus credits, The would be pirated answered, Fund a war against the zoners... Please..... be gone, Big battleship appeared and pewpew Corsairs gone. That was in the Omega, I personally think those ships had a direct link to zoners, Because there response was just to good.
Additional question....
As far as pew pew goes, Whats the difference between raiding and defending? Isn't there just as much pew pew either side in either instance?
Zoner here, dont like to fight, dont want to, But i would have expected if I did want to fight, Id be happy to goto the fight, or the fight come to me, Both options are a fight.
Is it just that the Corsairs don't like Having there freedoms imposed upon?.....
EDIT: Someone up there ^ suggested removing turret mounts, I disregarded it, I just realised, I raise you.
Make our offensive capability's very poor!, Give us 50x sheild capacity and transport turrents on BSHIP, Cruiser ect, So we can "defend" ourselves against NPC's (for repping) I for one, would love this. Big scary ships that cant die, but can't kill, now thats an ability to maintain neutrality.
Corsair - Zoner - DarthBindo - 02-07-2012
' Wrote:no-clue I thought I read that the Corsair/Outcast war (Imposed by admin i read) was laugthed at,The Corsair-Outcast war is less of a war and more of two guys who can't share the toys.
At least, that's what it should be, but lolcaps raiding each other changed that.
' Wrote:That was in the Omega, I personally think those ships had a direct link to zoners, Because there response was just to good.There are skype chats full of people for hte express purpose of shooting Corsairs, people from a dozen different factions, all of them with battleships.
I once proposed a mission to the Elders into Omega-7, and an entire skype chat collectively eye-twitched.
' Wrote:As far as pew pew goes, Whats the difference between raiding and defending? Isn't there just as much pew pew either side in either instance?There's actually a big difference between raiding and defending, but it has nothing to do with lore or roleplay.
Zoner here, dont like to fight, dont want to, But i would have expected if I did want to fight, Id be happy to goto the fight, or the fight come to me, Both options are a fight.
Is it just that the Corsairs don't like Having there freedoms imposed upon?.....
See, with raiding you have you're entire force built up at once, active together and organized from teh get-go.
You jump your fleet into the system and start shooting things.
With defending, very rarely do you see a raid coming (the one exception to this rule being the LN-RM battles) so all of a sudden you have a few dudes in system who were just hanging out and a whole enemy fleet jumps in and starts pewpewing, and slowly your defense force trickles in one by one as they learn of it and the whole time the enemy has the upper hand.
And don't even get me started on the dockkilling.
Corsair - Zoner - Vladimir - 02-07-2012
>I think the Hessians are usually in Omega-54
Feedback received. Gonna come to you more often.