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+--- Thread: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction (/showthread.php?tid=134564)
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - jammi - 01-03-2016
@evanz - What does any of that have to do with battleship Cerberus turrets being nerfed?
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Thunderer - 01-03-2016
You can't load 480 hellfires any more. I think that 120 is the maximum. The devs were merely testing something when you could, and it was like that for a couple of days. It is not since two days ago.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Antonio - 01-03-2016
Remove gunboat zoom.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - evanz - 01-03-2016
if the ts/tz was to ever be removed, then the ability to box whilst shooting should also be removed
in other words
not going to happen
imagine the tears then
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - FallenKnight - 01-03-2016
(01-03-2016, 04:10 PM)Haste Wrote: I think the best approach is to limit TZ depending on ship classI read the whole thread and found that Haste already answered in the way I was about to react. So +1 to you Haste.
I know some ships (especially gunboats) benefit most out of these features, however some other ships (like BBs) are just relying on it. BBs are big and sometimes need to see the field easier instead to watch their windows and huge engine slapped in their face (.85 era). GB before (.85) were still very powerful cuz they are small and you see everything (except if you fly BretGB) but with TZ its easier for the GB player and a lot harder for the Snub player.
Limiting TZ to x1 per Gb, x2 per CA, x3 per BB and etc would be good start. But absolute removal of both features and going back to .85 would be terrible. I fly with x3 unzoom (out of 7) max with my BB and I like it.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Findarato Veneanar - 01-03-2016
What i would love to see is bombers being nerfed to the point of only being dangerous to gunboats and transports, along with TS/TZ being kept but solaris turrets being removed.
Yes, almost completely stop PVP between snubs and capships, with the currently systems of balance all it does is continue to hurt game play and the server as it has for so many years.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Binski - 01-03-2016
I'd die without TZ. its not just about fighting but when just flying and cruising I have to be able to look around without my ship taking up 60% of my field of vision. It still highly annoys me we can't do it with snubs. I guess i never fought with it on snubs to see how it would be negative but at the very least I hope it would stay for the larger classes of ships. I also like to be able to see groups of ships, get better perspective on surroundings and nearby activity. I do find a big reason I don't use snubs all that often, even for just flying around and exploring/general RP is because unless I'm fighting I prefer to zoom out a few tics on any other kind of ship I fly.
As far as I'm concerned, if you were on a ship even as big as a freighter, you'd have someone flying and someone else shooting in all likelihood. So I agree that it actually allows you to fly those ships the way they were meant to, and optimizes what you can get out of it. They're not unrealistic maneuvers. Snubs have particular advantages in firepower and speed that really only get somewhat offset by the ability to armor a ship, and optimize your defenses. Since we know enough AI exists that we could simply have automated systems do the targeting in RL, with probably better accuracy than us, we leave it as manual for gaming sakes... So as to limitations, I think its a shame to only and ever always be thinking in pvp parameters. Without tz you miss so much of the game, its already brutal you don't get it with snubs. All limitations or removal would do is throw the snubs an even heavier advantage than they already have. As a disco libertarian, removal of options is always bad.
It did trip me out the last time I watched WWII in color and saw the Russians had these old tanks that were 1 man operated and the guy had to both drive and aim/shoot all by himself. We think we have it tough!
(01-03-2016, 08:52 PM)Findarato Veneanar Wrote: What i would love to see is bombers being nerfed to the point of only being dangerous to gunboats and transports, along with TS/TZ being kept but solaris turrets being removed.
Yes, almost completely stop PVP between snubs and capships, with the currently systems of balance all it does is continue to hurt game play and the server as it has for so many years.
Can we elaborate on the exact cause of that harm? I see people say stuff like that but don't go far into details.
I think it should be the opposite...bombers should only be for taking out capital ships. Capships should simply have better defenses against them. Small groups/individual freelancers/pirates that don't have access to capital ships probably shouldn't have the firepower wielded by bombers either. There are shf's for gunboats, and all other ship classes for transports. Perhaps we wouldn't need such heavy armors on transports as much either since that super quick killer bomber might be something a trader worries about less. Pirates can always use transports, fighters, and GB's with decent effectiveness. To me, the ease of anyone jumping into a bomber, especially as in independent generic unlawful, and busting up transports within 2 minutes is more of a hurt on gameplay. Not the guy who sank millions into his capship getting shot down by a bomber that is designed for that purpose (not piracy). Bombers should be more expensive too. Really, it all depends on what you're flying. If you have sols, you have advantage. If not, they do. Their pvp probably still can use some reworking but its transports and GB's that already too easily get taken out by cheap bombers.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Pacific - 01-03-2016
Well I would welcome it, because I played on capital ships since 4.85 before the TS/TZ were implemented.
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - FallenKnight - 01-03-2016
(01-03-2016, 08:52 PM)Findarato Veneanar Wrote: What i would love to see is bombers being nerfed to the point of only being dangerous to gunboats and transportsBombers to be turned in to "cap ship destroyers" would be logical move to make them special and useful. That might require to buff them like more SNAC/NOVA damage but to reduce their maneuverability and armor.
Fighters > Fighters and Bombers
Bombers > GB/CA/BB
GB> Fighters and Bombers
CA > GB/BB
BB> GB/CA/BB
Balancing them like that will simply make all classes special, where BB wont be able to kill Snubs unless snubs go 1k...GB wont be able to engage CA nor BB unless they go 1k and die and etc. Your proposal to nerf bombers in such a way would make sense only if similar approach in balancing all classes as above is legit. I really would enjoy to see bombers being escorted properly and be vulnerable but super deadly vs caps and weak vs anything else.Bombers > GB/CA/BB
GB> Fighters and Bombers
CA > GB/BB
BB> GB/CA/BB
Those of you that ever played "Star Wars Empire at War: Forces of Corruption" - (its strategy game) the balance there between all ship classes is rock/paper/scissor as it must be - Bombers alone can kill anything big but die easily vs Gunboats, which die easily vs Frigates...which bombers can eat for breakfast and etc. Maybe something close to that could be implemented here....sadly the problem is here "all ships are balanced to fight ANYTHING on their own" which is huge mistake. Ships should be weak if being outclassed...
RE: Hypothetical Scenario: Removal of TS/TZ - Your reaction - Findarato Veneanar - 01-03-2016
(01-03-2016, 09:06 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Can we elaborate on the exact cause of that harm? I see people say stuff like that but don't go far into details.
Ol' Sin explains it fairly well in this thread.
(01-03-2016, 09:06 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Small groups/individual freelancers/pirates that don't have access to capital ships probably shouldn't have the firepower wielded by bombers either. There are shf's for gunboats, and all other ship classes for transports. Perhaps we wouldn't need such heavy armors on transports as much either since that super quick killer bomber might be something a trader worries about less. Pirates can always use transports, fighters, and GB's with decent effectiveness. To me, the ease of anyone jumping into a bomber, especially as in independent generic unlawful, and busting up transports within 2 minutes is more of a hurt on gameplay. Not the guy who sank millions into his capship getting shot down by a bomber that is designed for that purpose (not piracy). Bombers should be more expensive too. Really, it all depends on what you're flying. If you have sols, you have advantage. If not, they do. Their pvp probably still can use some reworking but its transports and GB's that already too easily get taken out by cheap bombers.
(01-03-2016, 09:12 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: Bombers to be turned in to "cap ship destroyers" would be logical move to make them special and useful. That might require to buff them like more SNAC/NOVA damage but to reduce their maneuverability and armor.
Fighters > Fighters and BombersBalancing them like that will simply make all classes special, where BB wont be able to kill Snubs unless snubs go 1k...GB wont be able to engage CA nor BB unless they go 1k and die and etc. Your proposal to nerf bombers in such a way would make sense only if similar approach in balancing all classes as above is legit. I really would enjoy to see bombers being escorted properly and be vulnerable but super deadly vs caps and weak vs anything else.
Bombers > GB/CA/BB
GB> Fighters and Bombers
CA > GB/BB
BB> GB/CA/BB
Those of you that ever played "Star Wars Empire at War: Forces of Corruption" - (its strategy game) the balance there between all ship classes is rock/paper/scissor as it must be - Bombers alone can kill anything big but die easily vs Gunboats, which die easily vs Frigates...which bombers can eat for breakfast and etc. Maybe something close to that could be implemented here....sadly the problem is here "all ships are balanced to fight ANYTHING on their own" which is huge mistake. Ships should be weak if being outclassed...
All of my +fins.