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+---- Thread: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry (/showthread.php?tid=136380)
RE: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry - FallenKnight - 02-24-2016
(02-23-2016, 04:46 PM)Vrabcek Wrote: I don't like them being used by way too many human factions, so under the current circumstances I'm not in favor buffing them.
If by "too many" you mean "Agency Factions" - then its fine, cuz LSF/BDM and Kempetai did quite a lot of research during vanila FL(wont go deep in that info). In disco tech tree allows these agency factions to use them cuz of RP reasons.
Ofc they must not be OP nor close to Nomad guns in terms of performance - but at least they have to make up for a weapon "restricted" to 90% of factions of disco - allowed only to the agency players(order/core etc) - to be at least ...compatible. Currently they are worst than "human" tech which makes 0 RP sense.
They require a buff to make them special cuz they are limited and also - alien.
PS: Also, being some kind of a special weapon only available to the mentioned above factions will inspire some players to push up the agency RP on the line. Sometimes you need a push even if a slight treat - being a weapon for example - in order to distinguish military factions (Police/Agency/Military) and their RP elements much further. An alien weapon - deadly - useful by...agents only - is enough reason to see more agents (or any agents in that matter).
RE: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry - Shiki - 02-24-2016
So shall I expect Order shooting Core with the nomad guns and then Core shooting Nomads with the Nomad guns. And then I will come to New York and see some LSF-restart indies instead of Navy ones shooting Xeno Roc near Colorado gate with the Nomad guns after usual 0,5 line of RP. Honestly I have a bad feelings about this. Probably make them usable for official factions ID only might be an option in this case. Then it will be regulated with some RP and will be fine. Even if humanity can adopt nomad tech properly it is not supposed to be a thing for the massive use as it will be with the current access to them.
RE: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry - FallenKnight - 02-24-2016
@"Shikeh" I remember one of the BIS factions had a rule to mount max 2 adapted weapons - for RP sake to represent a type of adaptation of a new tech, without overkilling the "house" weapons.
If that can be done via ID restriction - for example LSF/BIS/Kempetai etc...to be able to mount max 2 weapons - it will save a lot of mind storms and issues. Which also would allow the devs to "buff" the weapons accordingly (them to be good but only 2 max per ship).
Also your example of how you move from Omicrons (place where you u witness nomad tech quite often) and LSF (which might also use one) is flood. I see your point though.
RE: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry - Shiki - 02-24-2016
(02-24-2016, 12:29 AM)FallenKnight Wrote: Also your example of how you move from Omicrons (place where you u witness nomad tech quite often) and LSF (which might also use one) is flood. I see your point though.
That's flood, but I see your point? NICE. You will see barely less Nomad guns in Liberty than in Omicrons, you are always picking the best cases that it might work and pretty far from a reality of indies who are not under even faction control. Speaking of the Nomad tech in the Omicrons I agree, there is a lot of Nomad tech that it supposed to be used by Nomads, that how it works. Some experimental weapons used by top agents is fine too, not the massive use once again.
RE: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry - Shiki - 02-24-2016
A bit more though, I just want to say that you need around 10-15 years to make a project and starting a test of a new jet or tank. According to @FallenKnight humanity needs just a bit more time for adaptation and proper usage of complete alien technology and make it as effective as the current weapons which are reslust of the hundreds of year of engineer work. Nomad techology in human hands is already supposed to not be worse that current weaponry, because otherwise it's making 0 rp sense. I'm a bit surprised with the argument that LSF, BIS, MND, KPT, Order and the Core is NOT the wide access. Okay let's see...
1) Lauch the game
2) Multiplayer > Internet/lan > Pick the Server
3) New Char > Name: LSF-Dark.Angel.666 > create
4) /restart lilsf
5) /drawcash bankname pw 20.000.000
6) Buy Avenger and the Nomad guns
7) Undock
8) f2 to the Alaska jumphole, f3 within 20k
9) f2 to New York jumpgate, f3 within 20k
10) Go and shoot Xeno Roc at the Colorado gates
11) ???????
12) Now it's making perfect RP sense.
I guess it will take you 15 minutes in the case if you are really slow guy. I have no idea how this will push agency RP as Knight said. Similar can be done with any house, but Gallia. As well as with the one trans-sirius (not to mention to say that all intel factions are also can act out of their ZOI without any problems) faction and one factions with ZOI in Omicrons and Omegas with some trans-sirius perks. Gamewise there are usable guns already(why whould you use Nomad 3.0 with 650m/s when you can use civilian 3.0 700 m/s..., gamewise?), RPwise it makes sense only for official factions where it's probably will push some RP.
RE: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry - Traxit - 02-24-2016
(02-23-2016, 11:33 PM)Durandal Wrote: I have no issues buffing the 4.00s to 700 m/s and the 3.03s to 650 m/s.
That will give a reason to use the Blasters over Garand IX.
And the 3.03 is simple enough.
Further reading these walls of text...
![[Image: IEvpoTF.png]](http://i.imgur.com/IEvpoTF.png)
RE: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry - FallenKnight - 02-24-2016
@"Shikeh" There is no need to compare FL with RL - referring towards your example with the project for tank/jet. On the subject about adapted nomad weapons - we've seen these during 800.AS (original campaign of FL) which automatically represent that such "10-15 years" or less were already dedicated to research/test and build adapted nomad weapons. Add +20 (23?) years cuz disco is now what..820 AS? (correct me if I am wrong) but the point is - for ~35 years inRP -some agencies (most infected like Tekagi squad/LNS and LN on top of BDM and some RM) were already using "effectively" adapted weapons.
Lets say these were "wilde grade" weapons - so after the failed infiltration of the Nomads - these weapons were already researched but maybe damaged or classified as top secret for further tests by these agencies...So its like half the work for researching them from scratch was done in the past - further modifications would be easier to be done for few years to "rejuvenate" these rare items and put them in good use...ofc humans would not understand well how to use them at their full power so they are limited...which is bringing us back to the current "Adapted Nomad Technology" - or in short "nerfed Vanila adapted weapons" used by the infected agencies in the campaign.
About "how this will push agency factions" - well, you know agency-military faction differences are primary in RP while ingame they are using same tech. The only way to make factions different is to make them use different elements - to further increase the range between them. Adapted weapons are good step forward to make agency factions...somehow special, compared to military ones using house grade guns. But when the adapted weapons are not good at all nobody would care to use them - leading to situation where you wont be meeting more agents but more "house military".
(02-24-2016, 01:32 AM)Shikeh Wrote: Gamewise there are usable guns already(why whould you use Nomad 3.0 with 650m/s when you can use civilian 3.0 700 m/s..., game wise?)And you say that is fine? So we all should be using civilian guns cuz they exist and are good? If I care for lets say agency RP character - I would rather mount 2 useless adapted weapons and RP nicely how and why the agency is using them, than mounting "civilian" ones cuz they are best...do you see my point? People that love to RP would rather RP well with legit equipment than to care for PVP advantages...BUT - in the end pvp is what will appear on the line...so here comes the demotivate effect: "Why would I sacrifice my pvp advantage for few colorful guns when I can mount these epic flashpoints..." - then you would give up, mount flashpoints and pretend all is fine and adapted weapons are fine...but they are NOT.
I would rather want to see more agents with few nomad guns than civilian ones cuz top secret agents are supposed to be using top secret guns...and in order to RP them cool and represent some kind of special case - to use better guns - you need them to be competitive and strong (at least to some extend).
If you don't understand my reasons to support a buff to these specific items after this full explanation then there is no need to further discuss it.
RE: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry - Shiki - 02-24-2016
(02-24-2016, 06:22 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: There is no need to compare FL with RL - referring towards your example with the project for tank/jet. On the subject about adapted nomad weapons - we've seen these during 800.AS (original campaign of FL) which automatically represent that such "10-15 years" or less were already dedicated to research/test and build adapted nomad weapons. Add +20 (23?) years cuz disco is now what..820 AS? (correct me if I am wrong) but the point is - for ~35 years inRP -some agencies (most infected like Tekagi squad/LNS and LN on top of BDM and some RM) were already using "effectively" adapted weapons.During the Nomad War infected agents were using hybrid guns as we are calling them today? That's the other tech tree in other hands. BDM is not part of the vanilla lore afaik, as long as the other house intels beside LSF. And why should I do not reffer to RL? When all freelancer is just a huge RL projection in space. I think techical cycle is pretty much the same, you have corporations/engineering bureaus are projecting and making prototypes (which takes a lot of time), then militaries are testing them for at least a couple of years and only then rolling them into massive production. I'm taking about usual human technology based on the previous one, you are taking about complete different one, with other power sources and likely with even different basic logic put in them, different anything because created by complete different "brains". Not to mation to say that in fact it's a Dom'Kavash technology in fact..., 35 years is fairly enough, you are right.
(02-24-2016, 06:22 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: you know agency-military faction differences are primary in RP while ingame they are using same tech.Yes, because Agent is the RP thing in the fight place. Agents are not suppose to fight even (in disco they do a lot, because it's a space pew game in the first place), special forces yeah and specual forces are usually using a bit more advanced tech than regular troops, but there can be special forces under naval/police command.
(02-24-2016, 06:22 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: But when the adapted weapons are not good at all nobody would care to use them - leading to situation where you wont be meeting more agents but more "house military".Yeah, meeting "agents" with the ship name WASD_DEMON_666 in NY will be enjoyable. You totally ignoring the fact of indies who will just use this guns out of lolwut and there will be several times more of them than people who will actually make some rp around their guns.
(02-24-2016, 06:22 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: And you say that is fine? So we all should be using civilian guns cuz they exist and are good? If I care for lets say agency RP character - I would rather mount 2 useless adapted weapons and RP nicely how and why the agency is using them, than mounting "civilian" ones cuz they are best...do you see my point? People that love to RP would rather RP well with legit equipment than to care for PVP advantages...BUT - in the end pvp is what will appear on the line...so here comes the demotivate effect: "Why would I sacrifice my pvp advantage for few colorful guns when I can mount these epic flashpoints..." - then you would give up, mount flashpoints and pretend all is fine and adapted weapons are fine...but they are NOT.RP... using top secret guns... I'm getting how it works now...
I would rather want to see more agents with few nomad guns than civilian ones cuz top secret agents are supposed to be using top secret guns...and in order to RP them cool and represent some kind of special case - to use better guns - you need them to be competitive and strong (at least to some extend).
If you don't understand my reasons to support a buff to these specific items after this full explanation then there is no need to further discuss it.
![[Image: e64.jpg]](http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/541/095/e64.jpg)
Now you see, there is a lot of codenames, there are some with PURPLE (omg) effects that are can be used pvp wise, you have plenty guns that are actually made to play a role of AGENT SUPER COOL TOP GUNS RPwise. And they are somehow rescticted, at least you need to spend a bit more cash to get them or spend some efforts. Never saw any problem here. actually.
@Traxit
But you don't hate adapted guns, aren't you? You hating 8.33, so expect.
RE: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry - FallenKnight - 02-24-2016
@"Shikeh" I see your point. Your sarcasm image of Top Gun is legit reason to not be in favor of a possible buff to a gun which "any indie" can use with agency ID. But look - there is always a solution to such a problem and it can be handled with "faction agency ID".
For example - current adapted guns can remain as they are - unchanged...while Copy of them to be created, slightly modified/buffed - locket per faction ID (Currently LSF| and BDM| as only official factions cuz BIS and Kempetai are not official or nonexistant)...In this way indies wont be able to use the buffed variant while official factions that will not abuse them - will properly RP them out.
Faction perks exist and things tied to a specific ID can be done...its possible way and better step forward instead to consider all under same roof (indies/officials) and reject to buff weapons that are useless due to possible indie abuse.
RE: Suggestion: Buff Nomad Adapted weaponry - Shiki - 02-24-2016
@FallenKnight
This is looking better now and it's something that I can agree with. It's pretty much close to my point that I made few posts ago: Buff for the official factions only (then TOP GUNS will be at least under control of the 4 faction leaders, which is acceptable).
Leaving the current guns for indie IDs is a nice idea as well.
TOP GUN pics are always working in a favor.