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+--- Thread: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! (/showthread.php?tid=142752)
RE: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! - Mickk - 09-07-2016
(09-07-2016, 12:17 PM)Mercarryn Wrote: Not sure how you get the impression that some transport turrets are almost military grade cruiser weapons.
I'm fairly sure that the Charon turret has close to military class turret stats, minus the range, in fact I believe the info cards for them state that, although to be sure I would have to check.
(09-07-2016, 12:17 PM)Mercarryn Wrote: But as I said: To counter this, I suggest that corporations loose the right to use gunboats then.
Why?
As leo states in the previous post, making a Q-ship (an effective one anyway) would be more expensive than buying a civilian Gunboat and fitting it out.
However, I would not go as far as making 'special' equipment just for making Q-ships, the amount of work for the Devs to design/make and then balance it all would not be worth the effort.
I firmly believe that the gear to build Q-ships is already available in game.
I actually run both a Border World Transport and a Bison and I have flown pretty much every kind of tradeship in game that is available to a 'Freelancer' ID and I have played with various turret setups as well.
Pro tip: Don't mix turrets on your trade ship, the difference in range/rate of fire/projectile speed throws your aim off. If you must have multiple types of turrets, split them into groups.
RE: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! - Unlucky_Soul - 09-07-2016
(09-07-2016, 12:16 PM)leonardo_tigre Wrote:(09-07-2016, 06:03 AM)Unlucky_Soul Wrote: I dont think transport powercore can support the power requirements of capital turrets
A simple solution, which also ties into why these Q-ship turrets would occupy a lot of cargo: they're their own system, each with its own mini-powercore, internal systems that meld with the transport's, and even if the turret's shot out and the mini-powercore explodes, there is shielding and a containment unit that's powered by the transport's own powercore, keeping any danger contained to just that turret bay.
oh boy... you didnt get what i meant
A liner got a powercore of 90000 and recharge of 7500 and 11 turrets.
A basic cruiser uses 14000 energy and has refire of 2.00
14000 X 11 = 154000 power required for one volley. Which is waay above the limit the liner has got
a basic cruiser missile uses 1000000 energy to fire. You think the liner can handle that with its 90000 powercore?
RE: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! - TheShooter36 - 09-07-2016
aside from making effects for weapons and writing their infocards, it isnt hard to make them at all
RE: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! - Mr.Fabulous - 09-08-2016
(09-07-2016, 05:06 PM)Unlucky_Soul Wrote: A liner got a powercore of 90000 and recharge of 7500 and 11 turrets.
A basic cruiser uses 14000 energy and has refire of 2.00
14000 X 11 = 154000 power required for one volley. Which is waay above the limit the liner has got
a basic cruiser missile uses 1000000 energy to fire. You think the liner can handle that with its 90000 powercore?
I do believe I've been misunderstood in saying that, especially without the numbers to back up my statements.
Let's go with the example of a Pilgrim Liner. It has a 90,000 u with 7,500 u/s, with a 4300 Cargo hold. Take note of the Cargo hold.
Yes, a normal Class 7 Basic Cruiser turret uses 14,000 u/shot, while a Class 6 Basic Missile Turret uses an amazing 1,000,000 u/shot. Under normal circumstances, a liner can barely sustain a barrage from a single turret from the former, let alone try to fire the latter.
But my idea, the Q-ship turret, is still considered Class 4 "Transport turrets". A Q-ship missile turret, with the same firepower as its Class 6 equivalent, only uses 30,000 u/shot. But its drawback is that a single Q-ship turret uses 300 units.
How did it achieve this miniaturization of power consumption?
Mini Power Cores.
The simple formula of most ships in Disco, both for cruisers and liners, is: PowerCore > Turret
The Q-Ship turret, however, has an additional component: PowerCore > MiniPowerCore > Turret
In short, the MPC is the one that powers the turret directly, while the ship's powercore merely powers the containment unit of the MPC.
Of course, it won't be easy storing the power core the size of a Very Heavy Fighter, or VHF, inside of another ship. Hence why the Q-ship turret occupies 300 Units.
Now, let's say we're going with Basic Cruiser Turrets and Missile Turrets. Frankly, the current Class 4 "Charon" Turret has more or less the damage calcs (4160/2080 H/S dps) of its Class 7 counterpart (4400/2200 H/S dps), except the former has half the max range, but let's say Q-ship turret equivalents want to maintain the range of their cruiser counterparts.
For this example, we'll make another Q-ship turret: the "Cherubim" Basic Q-Ship Turret. It has 2100/1050 H/S dps, 2.0 refire, 1600m range, 1000m/s speed, and occupies 300 Units.
Applying this, let's say our liner wishes to have 10 "Cherubim" Basic Q-ship Turrets and 1 "Goliath" Basic Q-ship Missile Turret.
10 x 580 x 2 refire = 11,600 u/second
1 x 30,000 x 0.10 refire = 3,000 u/second
11,600 + 3000 = 14,600 u/second.
Not bad power consumption for a 90,000 u, 7,500 u/second Pilgrim Liner, right?
But now comes the Cargo Space drawbacks:
10 x 300 = 3000 Units
1 x 300 = 300 Units
4300 - (3000 - 300) = 1000 Units left to spare.
Which is impressive, actually... The same space as an equivalent Battlecruiser would. Add in that normal transports worth their salt have some version of CAU, probably 4 or 6, so between 170 - 220, and you're still sitting between 700-800 Units to spare!
EDIT: I'd also like to wonder if it'd be possible for shields to work this way... A Q-Ship Shield generator that gives 250,000 Capacity, 3000 regen, and uses up 500 Units. And then there'd also be three versions:
> (cap-oriented) "Knight" Q-Ship Shield: 300,000 Capacity, 1000 regen, 500 units
> (jack-oriented) "Soldier" Q-Ship Shield: 250,000 Capacity, 3000 regen, 500 units
> (regen-oriented) "Warrior" Q-ship Shield: 150,000 Capacity, 6000 regen, 500 units
RE: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! - Unlucky_Soul - 09-08-2016
What you are suggesting can be done only if we make new turrets. I was talking in terms of the present layout
RE: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! - Mr.Fabulous - 09-08-2016
(09-08-2016, 04:13 AM)Unlucky_Soul Wrote: What you are suggesting can be done only if we make new turrets. I was talking in terms of the present layout
I get what you mean by using the present layout. But technically, you can't even equip Class 6/7 Turrets onto Class 4 Turret mounts, nor vice versa.
And yes, make new turrets, basically Class 4 Turrets. These turrets use cargo, but grant firepower.
RE: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! - sasapinjic - 09-08-2016
All this discussion is rather pointless really , since in case if opponent of "transport with reinforced weapons" is gunboat or bomber , all that reinforced weapons are useless , since like in Capitols case , you can hit small craft , but it will just use his speed and small size and move away from you until its shield regenerate and attack you again ( or in bombers case , just safely NOVA you from distance ) , so only way you can kill them is to have Cruiser/Battleship razor/s equipped . In case if opponent is Cruiser or BS , your combination of shield/armor/weapons is not even close to that of your opponent , in any category .
RE: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! - Mr.Fabulous - 09-08-2016
@sasapinjic I don't believe it's pointless.
Q-ship vs gunboat/bomber, to put it shortly, I've seen/heard of supposed-miracles happen. Where a transport captain put up a fight that the gunboat actually had to run, and bombers being shot down by charon turrets. Sometimes the scissor does cut the rock, so to speak. Especially if said scissor's skill has been honed to a razor's edge.
As for Cruisers/BS's, of course I don't expect Q-ship turrets to be equip-to-win scenarios, but it might open up some interesting things to happen. Where BS captains once roamed the stars to eat transports without contest, it'll be interesting to make capital captains really work for their money for a change. How often would you hear a capital captain come home to his drinking buddies, all bruised up, saying that a couple of Shires roughed him up?
I'm not looking for a new OP shipline... I'm looking for new avenues to open up creativity and diversity in RP scenarios.
RE: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! - Mickk - 09-08-2016
(09-08-2016, 07:40 AM)sasapinjic Wrote: All this discussion is rather pointless really , since in case if opponent of "transport with reinforced weapons" is gunboat or bomber , all that reinforced weapons are useless , since like in Capitols case , you can hit small craft , but it will just use his speed and small size and move away from you until its shield regenerate and attack you again ( or in bombers case , just safely NOVA you from distance ) , so only way you can kill them is to have Cruiser/Battleship razor/s equipped . In case if opponent is Cruiser or BS , your combination of shield/armor/weapons is not even close to that of your opponent , in any category .
I would imagine that you will not find a Q-ship operating alone, at least I wouldn't have a Q-ship working by itself.
If I was running a Q-ship, I would have *at least* 2 fighters with me, as a normal Trader would probably have an escort of some sort if they were going into 'bad space'.
Personally, I'd have two or more Q-ships with escorts in convoy mode if I was going to be doing any serious hunting of pirates.
RE: Turning traderships into warships: Gun/Turrets use cargo! - KaelanFrey - 09-08-2016
Can't wait for Bowex) to make a fleet of CAP8 Cerb Shires and kill Gallia like they once tried with Kusari
I totally dig the idea of Q-Ships, though. However, I think that would require some re-balancing on capital ships and bombers, since some transports would practically become miniature, agile gunships.