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+--- Thread: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay (/showthread.php?tid=168989)
RE: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay - Karst - 03-23-2019
Okay Lyth, if you want a more productive response:
(03-23-2019, 10:53 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Omicron ores kind of need a serious balance pass and discussion as to how they can be made decent. I agree, the risk is astronomical compared to other ores, yet the profit is no different (or even worse?). The only problem with balancing economy around players like that is it means during low pop the profits could be broken. It's a tricky predicament.
Agree totally. The actual issue isn't that Nomads can engage transports with no demand, it's that the admittedly dangerous and poorly connected Omicron ores aren't worth the risk.
Mining in the deep Omicrons should be risky, but if you can just do a regular ore route that offers better connectivity and much lower risk, why bother? If they were at least 10-15% more profitable there might actually be traders willing to brave the dangerous frontier (and a minor buff like that wouldn't break the economy when people powertrade it during the off hours).
RE: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay - Sombs - 03-23-2019
I would rather see the entire Omicron systems being legitimate for that. I personally had more troubles with human IDs shooting transports without demands, especially Xeno indies, instead of nomads, which was maybe three times over three years so far. I don't think nomads should hunt transports in non-Omicron space, or at least not with a reasonable demand (like artifact smugglers dropping artifacts, etc) but I don't think there is an actual need to change things other than "but my argument is better" and "if you argue against it, you're one of those that kill transports for cheap kills!!!!1one".
I do believe people should expect a harder treatment if they are deliberately entering the Omicrons instead of trading in literally 100 other systems.
RE: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay - SnakThree - 03-23-2019
I think Lyth thinks that demanding all cargo is less problem than just blasting transport. Demanding all cargo usually takes more time away as you have to figure out next route. If you get destroyed you can just respawn and start new route.
RE: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay - Backo - 03-23-2019
(03-23-2019, 12:40 PM)SnakThree Wrote: I think Lyth thinks that demanding all cargo is less problem than just blasting transport. Demanding all cargo usually takes more time away as you have to figure out next route. If you get destroyed you can just respawn and start new route.
In the case of miners you're pretty much locked out of your mining system:
4.1 If you die whilst in a PVP situation, in any form, you are considered as ''PVP Dead''. A PVP Dead player must:
Leave the system the fight took place in for one hour. You must not carry cargo while doing so and must not engage in any player interaction while you are leaving. Other players must allow a PVP Dead player to leave the system.
Not re-enter the system they died in on any of their characters for one hour.
Not attack the player/players they died to on any of their characters for one hour.
I think you also are not allowed to pass through the system in transit while trading either, so if you kill people in chokepoints you can really mess up their trading as well.
RE: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay - Lythrilux - 03-23-2019
(03-23-2019, 12:19 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: I'm of the strong believe that we shouldn't cater the game any further to allow players more conveniences in areas that shouldn't be convenient. Right now, a player can move from A to B at the fastest route system/map-wise without needing to consider any dangers like NPC patrols or weapon platforms. There is no blockade-breaching anymore, no need to give that 5k transport transport shields or guns, no need to plan the route more carefully. The fastest way shouldn't be the safest. And you're asking for even more convenience for transports and pull the gameplay card? Gameplay needs to remain in balance with what the environment delivers.
Player convenience should always be a priority in creating a more accessible game. CD plats, system-wide Cap NPCs spawns, systems entirely covered by nebula/radiation are all 'hazards' that sounds cool in theory but their gameplay application is horrible, and do nothing other than frustrate and convolute the player experience. The Nom Plats in Iota were awful for human ships and killed interest in raiding Iota. The constant spawning guard NPCs in Delta were awful for human ships and made people not want to log for RP. When the Rabisu and Anzu was broken, people argued the Nomads deserved them, whilst the human factions were reluctant to interact. There's this stupid belief that the Omicrons should be supposedly 'dangerous' for human ships but Nomads have a fairly comfy experience, and this has proven time and time again to be bad for gameplay. We need balance. The Omicrons already have their dangerous nature represented by the frequently PvP activity, lawlessness and many factions who are more or less all hostile to each other. Nomads killing defenceless transports doesn't create danger, nor does it represent that environment. It just makes people want to stop logging. Trade activity is literally the lifeblood of active regions and the structure of the Omicrons right now does not help support it.
(03-23-2019, 12:21 PM)Foxglove Wrote: Well, if Nomads are not supposed what they logically would in the majority of cases, why don't we take a look at the server rule allowing all human IDs to treat Nomads (including their transports, and Nomads might get them in the future) as combat target anywhere? Clearly, there is an imbalance here if you accept that adjusting the Nomads is necessary. The same reasoning applies to this server rule.
I have argued that rule change was stupid and should go. It wasn't a well thought out implementation imo.
(03-23-2019, 12:24 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: I'm more worried about the transports that suddenly come to Iota, Psi and Major and expect not to get shot but pirated.
Do transports even go to those systems...? I mean, there are also factions that have to put up with that already. If it is absolutely necessary, permit them to engage transports there. As of right now, Nomads are hurting the systems with interesting trade routes by nuking transports with zero chance for counterplay or fighting back, and it's killing interest.
RE: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay - nevrozac - 03-23-2019
(03-23-2019, 12:38 PM)Karst Wrote: Okay Lyth, if you want a more productive response:
(03-23-2019, 10:53 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Omicron ores kind of need a serious balance pass and discussion as to how they can be made decent. I agree, the risk is astronomical compared to other ores, yet the profit is no different (or even worse?). The only problem with balancing economy around players like that is it means during low pop the profits could be broken. It's a tricky predicament.
Agree totally. The actual issue isn't that Nomads can engage transports with no demand, it's that the admittedly dangerous and poorly connected Omicron ores aren't worth the risk.
Mining in the deep Omicrons should be risky, but if you can just do a regular ore route that offers better connectivity and much lower risk, why bother? If they were at least 10-15% more profitable there might actually be traders willing to brave the dangerous frontier (and a minor buff like that wouldn't break the economy when people powertrade it during the off hours).
by your logic we should just remove half the ores because regular ore routes offers better connectivity and much lower risk
RE: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay - Shinju - 03-23-2019
By his logic we should rise up profit of Omicron Ores.
Also it brings you hell lot of danger when you trade in Omicrons and suddenly Nomad appears behind. That adrenaline is awesome. And why? Because I play this game for fun, if you get destroyed by Nomad in defenseless transport and THIS encounter demotivated you to log, then you play this just for greed. And if you were looking for RP in transport and you got deleted, you can always find encounters elsewhere. I cannot really see how it demotivated people after being killed by the aliens which are here just for destruction of humanity.
You always can find different trade route if you are such a passionate Transport captain <3 If you are not, then don't fly transports, simple as that.
RE: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay - Lythrilux - 03-23-2019
Well, Karst isn't wrong, but I just don't think that kind of balance is possible. How can we balance ores around player-created risk? How can those ores remain balanced during low-pop or if Nomad players take an activity dip? It's a really tricky issue, but honestly, I think the best way to keep it balanced is to reduce the risk (which is insanely high and offers no reason for players to come back and try again), rather than balancing around it.
A suggestion: the Iridium field in Delta should be moved to G5 or E5.
RE: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay - Vendetta - 03-23-2019
No. Aliens should honestly be able to kill you without saying a word. Space is dangerous after all.
RE: Aliens killing transports without a demand is bad for gameplay - SnakThree - 03-23-2019
(03-23-2019, 01:18 PM)Vendetta Wrote: No. Aliens should honestly be able to kill you without saying a word. Space is dangerous after all.
Uh. Verbal roleplay before engagement should mandatory and should be across all IDs. Getting blasted without a word even if by Nomad only shows that player should not be here on server with such attitude.