(11-11-2023, 10:46 PM)Levenna Wrote: I really hate using this argument but I don't see how you could convince me that missiles are the reason for your death in either of those two situations and that you wouldn't still have just died outright to mortars or even just cruiser tachyons. You even shot down a very good deal of the incoming ordnance in the first one. There was very obviously a lot that went wrong before missiles were even a factor. I agree that missiles are very efficient damage wise but.. if dying to spam is your issue, that honestly speaks to me that you need to look at your fleet fight positioning moreso than missiles being the core issue. They have to be in range before you can spam them.

(11-11-2023, 10:46 PM)Levenna Wrote: . Cruisers have the much easier job of just sitting on them by being faster.

(11-11-2023, 10:46 PM)Levenna Wrote: To be perfectly honest, the constant I see between the two missile examples are that you're isolated or overextended and heavily outnumbered, with your friendly support too far away to be of any help clearing your tail.

(11-11-2023, 11:37 PM)Dark Chocolate Wrote: Incoming missiles. Incoming missiles. Incoming missiles. Incoming missiles. Incoming missiles. Incoming missiles.
You really don't see a problem there?

(11-11-2023, 11:37 PM)Dark Chocolate Wrote: Yes. My point exactly. You can sit on them GBs and yeet them with Impacts.. You don't necessarily need light mortars.
Any cruiser, missiles pluse impacts is most viable. BC goes 2 impacts/2 missiles or just straight up quad missiles. No other guns as viable as these.

(11-11-2023, 11:37 PM)Dark Chocolate Wrote: Also... That's Sarwar's video. Check mine here Discover MissileLancer check other videos on my channel too. Please.

(11-11-2023, 11:41 PM)Sarwar Wrote:

(11-11-2023, 10:46 PM)Levenna Wrote: To be perfectly honest, the constant I see between the two missile examples are that you're isolated or overextended and heavily outnumbered, with your friendly support too far away to be of any help clearing your tail.

that is usual thing of disco.
real problem is ....The amount of Focus and Power Core you waste on avoiding missiles, leaves you with nothing to return fire or dodge in coming fire effectively cuz there is no effective counter to OP Missiles with CMs performing poorly + Low CM Ammo is extra topping on pizza.

On the other hand...A pilot who is using missiles, just need to Right Click and there you go...job is done.
it is "less effort vs Extreme effort"...RIP Balance

(11-11-2023, 11:41 PM)Sarwar Wrote:

(11-11-2023, 10:46 PM)Levenna Wrote: To be perfectly honest, the constant I see between the two missile examples are that you're isolated or overextended and heavily outnumbered, with your friendly support too far away to be of any help clearing your tail.

that is usual thing of disco.
real problem is ....The amount of Focus and Power Core you waste on avoiding missiles, leaves you with nothing to return fire or dodge in coming fire effectively cuz there is no effective counter to OP Missiles with CMs performing poorly + Low CM Ammo is extra topping on pizza.

On the other hand...A pilot who is using missiles, just need to Right Click and there you go...job is done.
it is "less effort vs Extreme effort"...RIP Balance

(11-12-2023, 02:09 AM)Levenna Wrote: My point is, how would either of those two situations gone differently if they were mortars instead of missiles?

(11-12-2023, 02:09 AM)Levenna Wrote: Gunboats are far too agile to hit with impacts

(11-12-2023, 02:09 AM)Levenna Wrote: Alright, I watched it. You got unlucky a couple times with missiles detonating at their max distance.

(11-12-2023, 02:09 AM)Levenna Wrote: frankly missiles are *not* good cruiser v cruiser weapons.

(11-12-2023, 02:09 AM)Levenna Wrote: I will gladly conn that Hel on my own LSC to prove this. Equally if you want to play a quad devastator BC against a cruiser of mine, or other missile loadout, I will demonstrate missile dodging with that, too. You can't dodge every missile, but the vast majority are very much dodgeable. I'm currently uploading a duel of my own BC against Haste's cruiser, if you don't want to conn that, as another example, wherein I use a total of 90 marauders and he wins the duel with 30k health left.

(11-12-2023, 07:10 AM)Czechmate Wrote: I actually love the new missiles, when I play BC in a fleet fight I just first person launch 4 missiles and retreat, play it as old bombers Worst case you take out attention of one player completely, it needs no skill which is good - I have none, and also big indirect buff to missiles there's little opportunity cost for having meme 4x missile loadouts

(11-12-2023, 07:10 AM)Czechmate Wrote: it's pretty funny people show duel videos like they matter at all for balance of fleet fights where you aren't 1v1 don't play vs one guy with one loadout

(11-12-2023, 07:33 AM)Dark Chocolate Wrote: See this is the problem. You guys are Aces. Especially you with an LSC like super ultra pro max Ace level. I'm just a regular everyday normal player. You'd dismantle me regardless of what setup you or me use. I suspect the playtesting being done for the balance is also between aces. Like, Is there anyone with like medium/normal/average skill level in the playtesting team? ... Moreover, Is playtesting done only in duels? Is there play testing done for fleet battles? Like 5 vs 5? Or atleast 3 vs 3? Or against uneven odds?

(11-12-2023, 08:21 AM)Levenna Wrote: I get what you're saying here, I really do, believe it or not. I was for a loooong long time just a normal everyday player too, but it's really simple things like for example, if you go towards the opponent instead of kiting away from them, missiles aren't good in cruiser duels, they just don't hit, I really wish I had a recorded example but sadly I don't. Like you don't have to perfectly play, you just have to be aware of what the counterplay is. I don't think everyone should be at a SUPER GIGA AMAZING ACE level, but I think learning basic counters is perfectly valid. I will, however, say that it should probably be on people like me to actually put out that information, though.

Likewise, a lot of grief in fleet battles can be solved by getting on VC with your buddies and just communicating that way.
"Oh ***** I'm being dived!"
"Alright come to me I'll clear your tail, you keep focusing on shooting down the missiles."
That kind of thing isn't too bad, at least I don't think so?

Also I will straight up admit I wasn't a part of the group fight playtests, but I can at least tell you they did happen in.. I think at least 3v3? Maybe slightly more. Uneven odds the game isn't balanced around though, since balancing for uneven odds is, well, not balanced really if the odds *are* even obviously.


Edit:
With relation to countering missiles in a cruiser v cruiser (which I think is valid enough to be worried about, it happens outside conn pretty frequently), I have carefully constructed an advanced diagram. Tl;dr, missiles don't turn good close in, so you just get close and the missile can't really do much.

(11-12-2023, 08:34 AM)Schxer Wrote: So it's all skill issue then. Thanks for clearing that up.
I guess our experiences of being on the numerically lower side, and having no option but to kite, then simply getting blasted by missiles, mortars, primaries and having to take care of all that while covering for other caps, dodging the oncoming fire, also having to lead the fleet so as not to end up in Nebula or debris are totally invalid and it's just because of skill issue. I totally agree.