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+--- Thread: Scenario Discussion: The 'Tinker Toy' failed (/showthread.php?tid=21074)
Scenario Discussion: The 'Tinker Toy' failed - Linkus - 05-28-2009
Best solution in this not-so-nice-universe would be to do what n00bl3t said, sleeparrrr ships.
I mean, we did it once...
On another note, the Nomads of Sirius appear not to be able to get their massive sun imploding thing, suggesting that they are not the same as the ones in Sol. Considering that the bonus dvd (Courtesy of Treewrym) shows concept art for the intro sequence and a pilot of said vessel, it suggests that they are indeed a different group.
What has come to be a commonly accepted view of the Nomad's reasons for wanting rid of humans in Sirius is this:
It's theirs.
They were born in Sirius which is in itself, a playground to learn in. Valhalla 1, Cardimine, Gallia planets etc. All of these are not normal things to appear in random parts of un-inhabited space.
The humans in Sirius came from Sol.
They are like a group of Gypies/Tinkers/Travelling Community folk moving into your house when you are asleep and then when you wake up, they refuse to leave.
You can't go to a higher power, you can't call the police.
YOU have to deal with them.
Which is what the Nomads are doing.
All conjecture really though.
Anyway, Kusari would fall, Bretonia next. Liberty and Rheinland would probably turn on each other, courtesy of the Nomads. In the end they could be used by the Nomads to help their expansion (Energy sources etc) and generally do certain things the Nomads would prefer not to use their time on (Needed but not as needed as other things etc)
Last hope would be running away.
Again.
Scenario Discussion: The 'Tinker Toy' failed - Ivan Ilyich - 05-28-2009
If we accept a black and white nommies= evil, as SP suggests, Humanity dies.
Kusari is overrun completely.
I don't think Bretonia would be able to do a whole lot. The infestation had reached all of the colonies, and while perhaps less than in Liberty and Rheinland, She would still be subject to manipulation. I always had the impression that Bretonia was the weakest of the four*; having the bad luck to take engine damage, to arrive late, and to settle in the mostly-ice barrier nebula; having only three inhabited planets, all three fed by one. Sure, they might have good technology, or a large military, I don't know if they do, but I think Fortress Bretonia wouldn't last very long.
How would the Order even warn them? If everyone in Minor dies during the fight, will the Order elsewhere even know? Unless they have faster-than-light communication, the fastest way to carry news is to have ships act as couriers, using a network of Jumpholes and Jumpgates. Even If an Order pilot did escape, where would he go? Would he be able to get through Alaska and to New York, through Nomads and Navy? Is the cloaking technology going to last long enough for that?
Once Nomads become public knowledge, of course there will be resistance. There will be heroic last stands, all of which are doomed to fail. People will try to hide, to build bases in the middle of nowhere, but they will eventually be found. Groups such as the GMG, Dragons, Zoners, Junkers, etc who base their living in space, could probably flee, rebuild, and flee for a long time, but only ekeing out a miserable and fearful existence as they do. Eventually, their last ship would be lost, and they would die.
Outcasts, if they were used by the Nomads, would be the last to go. If the Nomads didn't use them, they would be pretty much dead the moment they lost Malta. The Corsairs would lose most of their food supply, weakening them, and while fighting valiantly to defend Crete would be defeated anyway.
It would take a long time to finish off the little bits of Humanity, probably a few centuries, but the end would be inevitable. Once houses finish each other, the Nomads will likely not lose too many battleships as the survivors have less and less to fight with.
If a sizeable portion of the Bretonian government knew and was able to hold out long enough to build sleeper ship(s), then perhaps we do escape and start over. Otherwise humanity is gone for good. I can't see a non house mustering the resources to build sleeper ships. The Outcasts and Corsairs, while small houses in their own right, likely couldn't do it either. The OC can't survive without Malta, and the Corsairs probably do not have the technology anymore, lost during centuries of poverty and starvation, unless there were plans on the escape pods that were preserved.
Of course, this is all opinion and conjecture.
*- By weakest, I mean that between them all, Bretonia is the least strong- that does not mean it is weak overall, just weaker than the others
Scenario Discussion: The 'Tinker Toy' failed - farmerman - 05-28-2009
There's surely a lot that could happen. I decided to replay the vanilla SP, and I'm almost at the Tekagi part. By this point, there are supposedly Rheinlanders showing up in every system. And they seem to like blocking people in.
Thus my thought is if their advance slows, they'll just sit at the connecting points for all the left over systems and shoot anything that tries to leave. So there could be an area of humanity safe (I think the Taus would be a better bet), but there wouldn't be that much for them to do. None of the systems are self sufficient enough to survive in large numbers for too long, and at that point they nomad forces could rebuild and run them over again.
I would think smaller groups would be able to hold out for much longer (no point is stomping out a few dozen when you control all the major planets and station). I imagine they could try and go visit Sprague and Pygar and all those fun places to try and learn more about the situation and see if there was some other way to deal with the threat.
Scenario Discussion: The 'Tinker Toy' failed - Klaw117 - 05-28-2009
Wait, are we including Discovery canon in this as well? If that's the case...
First of all, the Nomads from Sol and the Nomads from Sirius are NOT the same (most likely). It has never even been established (at least, not that I know of) that the Nomads really blew up Sol (I prefer to think of it as under Alliance rule. All communist nations, such as the Coalition, fall sooner of later). Either way, the Nomads from Sirius had no idea of humanity's existence until they awoke to see them in Sirius, which was originally designed by the Daam K'Vosh for the Nomads. With their birthright stolen, the Sirius Nomads waged war on humanity.
Also, the Nomads were not interested in outright extermination. They instead wanted to possess humanity and combine their technology with the Nomad technology and recreate Sirius. While the Nomads had superior technology, their population was much smaller than humanity. Here's where all of this was gotten:
Quote:In the process the Nomads learned quite a bit about humanity and began toRead the Nomad Backstory in my sig for more info.
understand how we had appropriated the knowledge that the Daam-K'Vosh had
intended for them. They also realized that our own civilization was technologically
more advanced than their own -- but much as humanity had taken the remnants of
the Daam-K'Vosh civilization and made it their own, so the Nomads decided that
they would take our civilization and rebuild it in their own image. We had already
unlocked secrets of the Daam-K'Vosh that it would have taken them millennia to
uncover. Besides, human bodies were warm, their senses exquisite, and they
reproduced so quickly as to make any one body expendable. The Nomads thought
that, yes, they could grow quite accustomed to making their homes inside of us...
But the Nomads were not strong enough to directly wage war on humanity, nor were
their numbers large enough to take over en masse. They had to be slow, careful, and
discreet, working through subterfuge and misdirection. But as they learned more
about us and our politics, they realized that they wouldn't need to fight us: we would
do all the fighting for them. All they had to do was apply pressure in a few critical
places and humans would surrender to their natural violent instincts. Once we had
expended ourselves in a futile fight waged against phantom aggressors, the Nomads
would easily be able to assume control and use humans as a vehicle to expand
throughout the galaxy.
The Nomads spread like a virus, hopping from one individual to another and leaving
a string of damaged psyches behind them that spouted impossible stories of faceless
monsters and giant worms. They moved intentionally, with a goal, always departing
one host for another that was more highly placed in government or industry. They
ignored the minor factions -- the Outcasts, Corsairs, GMG, freelancers -- and
concentrated instead on the major houses. After years of moving from body to body,
they succeeded in occupying the most important public positions in Rheinland.
Already reeling from the Eighty Years War and the ensuing economic crash, the
political turmoil of the Rheinland Republic proved a fertile ground for hatching their
schemes. The Nomads initiated a secret military program to rebuild the Rheinland
navy and moved to quietly suppress those political factions who might object to their
new policy of Rheinland nationalism. Ever so carefully, the Nomads have pushed
Rheinland closer and closer to the brink of war, even as they move like a shadow
through the upper reaches of government in the other houses. Today the entire
sector stands in peril as the Nomad's plans have nearly reached fruition.
Scenario Discussion: The 'Tinker Toy' failed - Treewyrm - 05-29-2009
Quote:If we accept a black and white nommies= evil, as SP suggests, Humanity dies.SP does not suggest that, it tells the story from just one of the sides, exactly the side fighting their influence, quite naturally you aren't going to portray your opposing side in white light, so downright "evilization" is a part of that, just like lawfuls see unlawfuls and vice versa. Since in Discovery we're playing many opposing sides, Nomads including, it isn't one of the conflicting sides dictating roleplay model for the other side, keep that in mind, folks. If you want to begin understanding the Nomads and even roleplay them - make sure you abstract from these stereotypes entirely, forget about them, you aren't going to play a nomad from the perspective of a typical order pilot.
It seems only very few are closer to understanding the Nomads' intentions, the rest are so terribly far. Actually that's a good thing. Mystery walks paths intentionally misleading, and leaves a lot to become surprising if not outright shocking revelations.
You haven't seen the tip of the iceberg yet, folks.
Scenario Discussion: The 'Tinker Toy' failed - Trinankh - 05-30-2009
Wouldn't the nomads just keep pretending to be human leaders? I mean why reveal themselves if they can control us? Once all of our leadership is under their control we'd be their tools, until they decide to dispose of us.