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+--- Thread: Innocence & Guilt. (/showthread.php?tid=23251)
Innocence & Guilt. - tansytansey - 07-15-2009
' Wrote:I was punished before the conclusion and on both occasions i was deemed "Unguilty" on both cases, it would be great not to punish anyone without final conclusion. you call it "pre-emptive punishment." But once it was proved that i have done nothing wrong, was i compensated? Nope i was not.:(It doesn't say anywhere you are entitiled to compensation if wrongly sanctioned. When it happens on the few unfortunate occasions, the victims' equipment/credits are restored and/or the ban lifted. It's not like you just spent 13 years of your life in prison and have nothing to come back to.
Innocence & Guilt. - Jihadjoe - 07-15-2009
Weed, I was speaking personally, about my methods of doing things. With regards to your sanction or whatever it may have been, I have been staying firmly out of it due to the fact we have far too much history behind us, disagreements on a personal level etc for me to be able to handle it in an even handed way.
However, I don't believe this is the place to discuss that.
You lost credits and armour due to a sanction for repeated re-engagement. You proved to be guilty on that occasion. I'm not going to discuss the other incidents.
Innocence & Guilt. - Weedalot - 07-15-2009
' Wrote:It doesn't say anywhere you are entitiled to compensation if wrongly sanctioned. When it happens on the few unfortunate occasions, the victims' equipment/credits are restored and/or the ban lifted. It's not like you just spent 13 years of your life in prison and have nothing to come back to.That is correct, I didnt spend any time in prison, or did i?:D
' Wrote:Weed, I was speaking personally, about my methods of doing things. With regards to your sanction or whatever it may have been, I have been staying firmly out of it due to the fact we have far too much history behind us, disagreements on a personal level etc for me to be able to handle it in an even handed way.i was not talking about that, And i do not intend to do so.
However, I don't believe this is the place to discuss that.
You lost credits and armour due to a sanction for repeated re-engagement. You proved to be guilty on that occasion. I'm not going to discuss the other incidents.
Innocence & Guilt. - tansytansey - 07-15-2009
I'm reminded of the time some kids tried to sue Microsoft that time the Xbox live network went down...
But that's getting off topic.
Innocence & Guilt. - n00bl3t - 07-15-2009
On that note, since we have a decent amount of votes, this thread was created as a general thought which I wanted clarified. (Human nature it seems in this case is obvious, but one has to be sure.)
That thought, was inspired by this, and over time it matured. (Censorship much? Alternatively, Scornstar much?)
If we look around, I am sure we can work out Weedalot's popularity on the forums. (I wonder what would have happened if this happened to Ximen, Swift, Jinx, or one of the other players who are liked by most if not all.)
No-one however, brought attention to the issue that he was punished without irrefutable evidence, if any evidence at all. Considering how you voted, all incorrectly I might add, since my voting options are terrible, one would think someone would say something about it, and probably be silenced. (Apologies, I have been under stress with financial matters for my business and I was not paying attention fully when I made this thread.)
For the above incident, that is, punishment without irrefutable proof, or any proof at all as it seems, to happen is beyond me. It really is. How do you punish someone without proof? However, I am sure, people prefer to be cautious, and mistakes are made along the path of learning. For the above incident, that is, punishment without irrefutable proof, or any proof at all to happen twice? Seriously? One would think you would have restraint to hold your horses so as not to injure someone who you already have injured without cause. (Yes, it is an injury. Joe once said that sanctioning someone was like shooting their dog, or something like that, and yes, for some it will feel that way.)
Another point, brought up by Nightmouse, was also in my head, albeit, not as matured as the Weedalot thought. That is, people being sanctioned without a chance to tell their side of the story. Admittedly, I am sure time constraints disallow this, along with an excuse I saw stating that the Administrators do not know whose forum accounts match up with server characters or something. Anyway, the point is still valid, but I do not believe it would be practical to implement such a system, at this point in time.
I dislike how once a person is sanctioned, or punished, even if that sanction or punishment is overturned that person still has the stigma or guilt attached to them. (Their name is smeared forever.)
Anyway, I will go on thinking. Hopefully, you do too. (Regardless of whether this thread is locked or not and hopefully, regardless of whether you like me or not.)
Innocence & Guilt. - tansytansey - 07-15-2009
' Wrote:I dislike how once a person is sanctioned, or punished, even if that sanction or punishment is overturned that person still has the stigma or guilt attached to them. (Their name is smeared forever.)That's not a matter native to these forums. Convicted rapists who are proven innocent are still smeared for life, same with convicted Pedophiles and other such crimes we consider dispicable in society. Innocent until proven guilty is law, what we are told to think, but not necessarily true. Nor is it any of the Admins fault, they can only act according to evidence.
It's not like we're drowning suspected Witches here, though.
Innocence & Guilt. - n00bl3t - 07-15-2009
' Wrote:That's not a matter native to these forums. Convicted rapists who are proven innocent are still smeared for life, same with convicted Pedophiles and other such crimes we consider dispicable in society. Innocent until proven guilty is law, what we are told to think, but not necessarily true. Nor is it any of the Admins fault, they can only act according to evidence.
It's not like we're drowning suspected Witches here, though.
Sanctioning is native to these forums.
That is why I wanted a vote, for opinions.
What evidence? It seems there is none. Just accusations.
On that note, witches were accused and then they were punished, in the sense that they died in the trial to prove their innocence anyway. Admittedly, we are not drowning Weedalot to find out whether he has committed an offence, but everything else fits the bill quite nicely.
Innocence & Guilt. - tansytansey - 07-15-2009
' Wrote:Sanctioning is native to these forums.
That is why I wanted a vote, for opinions.
What evidence? It seems there is none. Just accusations.
On that note, witches were accused and then they were guilty. Admittedly, we are not drowning Weedalot to find out whether he has committed an offence, but everything else fits the bill quite nicely.
Screenshots are provided with a sanction report, if I understand correctly. Some rule violations are probably harder to prove than others, like revenge killing as opposed to swearing. I think it's pretty clear, regardless of the back story if someone breaks a rule. There is no 'manslaughter' only 'murder'.
As for the witch thing, you can come back from a false sanction. Witches can probably respawn, but innocent people sure don't. That'd be evidence to burn them at the stake right there... But I think this metaphor has gone on long enough.
Innocence & Guilt. - Benjamin - 07-15-2009
Michael Jackson.
Innocence & Guilt. - Jongleur - 07-15-2009
crap.. I voted yes only because I was voting on the title of the poll: Innocent before proven guilty.
' Wrote:Who in God's name voted Yes?
that made me re-read what the entire poll was about and realized I voted on the wrong thing..
so whatever the results are.. +1 for no and -1 for yes
I'm guilty of not fully understanding before casting my vote.. and there's proof of it :P