Quote:What if the world we think is 'real' - what if this reality we're all so convinced that we live in - is the same thing? A figment of our imaginations, a reality constructed by our own minds? And what if the only reason we all seem to percieve the same reality is because, as Schrodinger once said, "the total number of minds in the universe is one." In essence we are all fragments of the same mind, creating a reality for itself (and by extension, for ourselves).

' Wrote:Hello Guys,
First, this arguement does nothing to disprove reality or any impact we may have on it. You may well be correct in your surmises, but it does not change the fact that we, the individual bits of mind given life, cannot change reality with mere thought. If we are a hobo's drunken fever dream, then we shall remain a fever dream despite any thoughts we may pursue. All that is left us is the ability to experience whatever our reality is, and the reality is that my Killians is getting warm and I want to experience it cold.

(Mmm, oreo's)

Tenacit Wrote:If you had studied philosophy, you would know that you have no answers at all =P

Quote:Also, this isnt my major or anything, it's just an elective class to fill the credit requirements I need for my degree.

' Wrote:I think there is neither fate nor free will.

I think there is no fate because it is neither real (because it hasnt happened and therefore does not exist in a real state at present), nor could anyone realistically ever predict a thing like "fate" (because the things we call fate are simply impossible to predict by outselves, free will or no free will, unlike the simple thinks we wouldnt call fate like an apple falling on the ground because of gravity). Since no one will ever really know fate, its nothing more than and abstract concept, or a myth like unicorns and heaven and hell. Sure in the future the universe will be in a certain state, but whether we can affect it with choices or not doenst really matter since we got no idea what the future will look like anyway. So there is no point in thinking about things like "fate", unless you also believe in santa clause and ghosts.

I think there is no such thing as free will, in the way that we could deliberately take two different actions when faced with the exact same problem with the exact same knoledge (apart from a random component over which we have no real control either).

What you might call free will is closely connected what is the "I" that you think is taking choices and is suposed to have free will.

It is the "I" that makes choices and tells us that there is such a thing like free will, like an array of possibel actions.

The "I" (or I call it awareness) is, as far as I perceive it (havent read much about it in psychology though), a thing that constantly draws conclusions from what it sees and remembers, and makes choices based on the conclusions it made.

I think the "I" is so trained on drawing the best possible conclusion (it constantantly does in every aspect of the mind... deciding what is that object you see, what is that pain you feel, is that thing edible yes or no) and making the right choice (its a red light... stop, that pain is a thorn in my foot, I better lift it, no its not edible it stinks) that it would never ever deliberately do the "wrong thing". It could decide to take an action that may seem wrong in some respects, but only if it decided that its the right thing to do for another reason, for example to see the consequence of that action and learn from it.

Our imagination is something the "I" uses to evaluate the outcome of actions it could take. What we image and the actions that we see as options are always products of what we remember (or remember/decide we are seeing right now).
There is a random component that affects memories, imagination, and senses, but it doenst give you real control over your choices and perseptions.

So the "I" has no real "choice" between actions... you will unavoidably do what you think is the correct thing. What you call free will is the options you can imagine, but you are not free to choose another one than what your brain tells you is the correct one.
Do you mean "exact starting condition", or "almost exact" starting condition? Right now I dont know where the difference in outcome would come from, but Im not into quantum physics really. Im more familiar with cybernetics and prognostic modeling physical, and in those that doesnt happen for "exact" starting conditions, but of course its not done on quantum physics level.

Cossac Wrote:About the chaos theory thing...technically I had that wrong. Chaos happens when initial conditions are very slightly changed. What I was thinking is that on a quantum level, we can't ever totally know the initial conditions, so we can never precisely model the universe and figure out exactly how it will play out. But that's going off on a tangent I guess...

Cossac Wrote:As far as your other point that we are always 'trapped' into doing whatever our brain decides is the best choice - it's an interesting thought, but it's a circular argument: any decision you make is automatically the best one because you made it

Swif Wrote:If you had knowledge of the position and nature of every atom and particle in the universe along with a sufficiently strong computing device, you could predict anything from the creation of the universe to its end.
It'll never happen, though.