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+--- Thread: Keepers Beta Test 1 (/showthread.php?tid=4588)
Keepers Beta Test 1 - Treewyrm - 11-20-2007
Interesting. But first, let's get a bit of things sorted out straight away:
People read faction post. There is much in there, unfortunately not many read it, including people posting here. So, here is the link. Please, read it first:
Keepers faction post
Now, let's get to every point one by one.
In-game roleplay
Suffice to say I haven't heard any attempts to make something other than aggressive contact. There were only few people trying to understand what Keepers really are and why they are doing this. Those who posted here aren't from that group. So, what do you expect in return?
Some people believe that roleplay is just talks in chat. Not at all. Keepers aren't talkative. If you wish to talk to them - find ways to, it's not going to happen in a normal way, but some found how to, for example Tannik Seldon, learn from them. So don't expect discussing weather in New London with Keepers in system chat, it's not going to happen. It's possible to communicate with them, but it's not going to happen by simply talking in system chat.
Find approach, improvise, because that's what we do and so you have to as well. It did work, read the forums. Specifically read about my characters, Harbinger and Taurvi, there was interaction other than guns blazing. But people tend forget that, they want to be shot. As I said earlier: find ways to communicate. Don't think that putting up "Hello guys!" will open up dialog with aliens straight away.
Additionally Nomad RP has been expanded, so there are now opportunities to seek. Find them.
Killing everything/RP
Again, this is not true. Had you read the faction post you would get the point. So, for those lazy I'm telling here:
Keepers attack anyone who uses nomad tech or carries nomad brains, they will pursue such people. If you don't carry/use nomad tech you will be attacked, but most likely not to be pursued. So just retreat and be done with it. If you fight back - we will fight.
How is that PvP whoring I don't see much. You don't expect Keepers to go around and give out flowers to everyone passing around, do you?
Detla is nomad territory. Most of you didn't bother to right-click on the the system and click on question mark. What does the second line you see here says?
What some fail to see is that the Keepers essentially is a police faction. Yes, you read it correctly, a police faction. They "police" their area of space, protecting "populace" (Nomad NPCs) from threats and looking for "contraband" (Nomad Tech) driving off humans, hence the name , or did anyone ever gave a bit of throught as to why they are called like that? Human expansion deeper into Nomad space is a threat. Don't claim those are your systems, because they never really were. Long before humans came Nomads were around already. I don't see every pirate faction banding together to go pillage Liberty, what makes this so different? Just because those are Nomads and not humans it doesn't open doors to abuse roleplay with exaggeration and absurd.
Also about mislabel as terrorist faction. Sorry, it isn't. Keepers can't go outside of our territory unless it's a staged roleplay event. Keepers are hunting down those stealing nomad technology and defending nomad NPC. Apart from Freeport XI I don't see any terrorism here from the nomad standpoint.
Territory
Once again it has been clearly outlined in faction post. It has area of influence clearly marked and limited, we don't go outside of that territory even if we pursue someone.
Storyline
How many times do I need to repeat myself? There is a story, but just be patient. You aren't getting answers straight away neither on forums nor anywhere else. It's a puzzle, piece by piece. Had I put entire script here there would be no interest to participate in by anyone including myself. Like I said, mystery and secrecy there are for a purpose.
I'm not fond of lazy RP factions that make up their story and then just go along as if the story has no continuation at all. As if the entire story written up was just an excuse to play without much roleplay. Keepers is the one with living story which will unfold in time. Little by little.
Freeport XI situation
Now this one is complex. First, like very rightly put here, it has become ridiculous with amount of people suddenly hopping on here at the sight of at least one keeper ship. Tell me, what is it?
Regarding roleplay of defenders here. There aren't many who are directly involved into, most people don't have anything to do with it at all.
As for "saviors of humanity". Let's be honest: it's the role of Order, not Corsairs, not Outcasts, not every joe and his dog. But some of you are jumping out of pants and hi-jacking what is not yours. If you want to fight back - join Order.
Now, as for making "alliances" in a very very short time, specifically between Corsair and Outcasts:
Breaking hundreds years of hatred in a matter of minutes, hatred of two most staunch opponents in the whole Sirius? Sorry, folks, this is not plausible. Remind me, please, how many years this war has been on? If it ends so quickly then I'm disappointed in how easily people throw up their roleplay traditions, their very cornerstone of faction roles. Being easliy open to such alliances is about like throwing off all roleplay straight out of the window. We all know very well how did such "alliances" go.
In fact Outcasts should have been just happy to have Corsairs getting into trouble, but coming to help at the slightest threat is not how such enemies would behave if you ask me. What if Yaren would be a target, would Outcasts come to help their enemies at it? In my opinion: no. But neither they would help Keepers obviously. They'll just find a way to deal more damage to Corsairs while at it, perhaps in other system, perhaps ambushing at jumphole. It's a system populated with Corsairs, Order, Nomads, Zoners, Bounty Hunters and rare occasion of Navy recon patrols. Sorry, but there are no Outcasts in the system. Go ahead and explain to me what importance Freeport XI hold to Outcasts and many others. Truth to be told: none. There are no important trade routes going through it (smuggling goes into house systems, not into Freeports, they are called "Free" for a reason), it's practically located in the middle of nowhere and very close to Nomad base system. In fact with heavy Corsair presence it means even less as Freeport XI has received help from Outcasts on several times.
Furthermore I have asked several Outcast players around, what would they do if Corsairs were getting damage from Keepers in a system that has presence of Corsairs but no Outcasts? The answers I got varied from "nothing, just stay and watch" to "go somewhere else and deal damage to Corsairs while their forces are stranded". Now that's how Outcasts should behave, in their roleplay, that's the way of their thinking, and those were Outcast players saying that. They will seek advantage of the situation, not suddenly going into and allying with the worst enemy you waged war for hundreds of years just because of Nomads. You might as well read Rumors of Outcasts, as they see Nomads as some spiritual beings (a rumor about that ship graveyard about unknown jumphole). Sorry, but so far such "quick alliances" are only convincing me that members of said "alliances" seek an excuse to roll on a PvP bandwagon down from the hill of roleplay for a kill.
Retreat behavior
They are Keepers by their name. Defenders, not suicide runners. Nomads also were never like that. Check the single player campaign, Nomads weren't seen until the very end, they used others to their needs. Only near the end of the game we have seen their ships for the first time. They don't send their ships to die, they send others to do that. I'm afraid you have to get your facts straight up and not make them up of thin air.
Final words
Interesting to note that when I started playing a nomad/hybrid on the server (it has been approx. five months by now), the nomad roleplay took a while to be ironed out. I remember first replies I had, a lot of people were harassing me, just because there was a trend about nomad roleplay being impossible. Truth is: nomad rp is very possible. It has been proven later and nobody later ever came down saying it was impossible anymore.
The faction goes through something similar at the moment, it finds how to play in group. How to lead the story in group. Being a lone nomad and now having other nomads together is different, but pretty much the same. Eventually issues will be ironed out, we will certainly not remain at the same point. So the faction will evolve as the time goes.
Thanks everyone for feedback. Personally I have made several notes for myself already and will work on resolving issues at hand. Stay tuned. A faction like that neither comes in rush nor it goes away quickly.
It is quite common trend here to bash out new factions, no matter if they are good or bad, community has become hostile and sees threat in anything. While criticism is always welcome and I always listen to suggestions, but any attempts to undermine the faction isn't going to move me by inch. This is where I stand and I have nothing to loose here at all. Some people here know how dedicated I am when it comes to things I put my time and effort to. So it is only you loosing opportunity for better roleplay, not me. I do this not for myself but for community and I have no interest in petty personal conflicts. Think about that.
Finally, if Nomad/Hybrid RP worked so well before I see no reason why it cannot work here. It will take time to get things sorted out as we all know that nothing comes perfect at the launch.
p.s. please, read the faction post FIRST before going with replies. A lot of you obviously did not, as you wouldn't put what has already has been explained in faction post.
Keepers Beta Test 1 - vpdm - 11-20-2007
RP -> Fun
It was started some time ago.
Keepers Beta Test 1 - snowm - 11-20-2007
Just one thought, why all Nomads have to be hostile to humans?
Why not make a small splitter group or a couple of individuals who think a cooperations with humans is possible?
I think that would increase the span of the Nomad RP.
Nomads who are neutral/friendly with some more open minded human factions but persecuted by the others, and having an ambivalent relation with the more "pure" Nomads.
Keepers Beta Test 1 - Panzer - 11-20-2007
Well finally some people who take being nomads seriously.
Expect to see a couple o' colonials in delta as well. Adding the new nomad systems gives us a much better way there than through gamma and Kappa... Why would we be there? Look at what floats around in the faaar east of the system. It's big, it's out of Sirius and it's definitely not nomad :P
Keepers Beta Test 1 - Treewyrm - 11-20-2007
' Wrote:Expect to see a couple o' colonials in delta as well. Adding the new nomad systems gives us a much better way there than through gamma and Kappa... Why would we be there? Look at what floats around in the faaar east of the system. It's big, it's out of Sirius and it's definitely not nomad :PIt's admins station, not yours. No matter how it looks. Even if it was a Nomad City there I would never use it an excuse to go, so neither should you. Or can you dock there? I don't think so. Sorry, but this trick isn't going to work on me.
However, there are many other ways to explain your presence plausible. Just give it a thought.
Here just a few examples: deep space recon, exploring new systems, supplies for FP11, etc. You name. Lots of possibilities.
Keepers Beta Test 1 - McNeo - 11-20-2007
I don't think he was referring to the Lost Battlestar, but whatever. Ill take your example, and be aggressive with my arguments too.
I read your part on Outcasts and Corsairs allying temporarily, or even just fighting the nomads on their own. Corsairs actually have their own station in Delta and in the RP situation, the Corsairs provide military support to the Order since the end of the nomad wars. So I haven't got a clue where you got the idea of "you have to join the Order to fight us". Outcasts, I agree, shouldn't be there. The place is swarming with Corsairs, with not a single Outcast NPC in the system or the systems one jump from it. Or even two jumps?. So the "Outcasts allying with Corsairs" situation shouldn't happen in the first place.
For now, my opinion stands along with that of my fellow Elders that adequate protection for the Zoners and the Order will be stationed on Yaren for response against Keeper forces. There are many aims of this, but one is to secure Delta from the nomads, namely the Keepers. Even bounty hunters can station there, as there are BH Destroyer patrols in that system. Mostly, they are shooting Corsair Osiris patrols....
Also:
Quote:<snip> I don't see every pirate faction banding together to go pillage Liberty, what makes this so different? Just because those are Nomads and not humans it doesn't open doors to abuse roleplay with exaggeration and absurd.
Actually, nomads being a hostile and very dangerous enemy to all humans means that humans do band together to fight them collectively. People don't kill Liberty, because they aren't a threat to the existence of the human race. In fact, there are many films and games that depict humans from all over the world banding together against an unknown and alien threat. Independence day and Wing commander are two off the top of my head. Its not role play abuse, especially when it is used as a selling point in films, in which the actors have a deeper role play element than we could have here. I do not agree with your point of view on that particular subject and have yet to be convinced...
Keepers Beta Test 1 - globalplayer-svk - 11-20-2007
As for "saviors of humanity". Let's be honest: it's the role of Order, not Corsairs, not Outcasts, not every joe and his dog. But some of you are jumping out of pants and hi-jacking what is not yours. If you want to fight back - join Order
only one little thing and the thing is called YAREN base in delta. i know that is order thing to fight with nomads but corsairs have also some interest in delta system.but i agree outcast have nothing in delta maybe some traders passing trough with cardamine to liberty
EDIT:mcneo has type the same as i but he was faster:)
Keepers Beta Test 1 - Treewyrm - 11-20-2007
' Wrote:I don't think he was referring to the Lost Battlestar, but whatever. Ill take your example, and be aggressive with my arguments too.What else do we have on the far eastern side of Delta but Lost Battlestar? Only nebula, asteroids, barren planets with no life on them.
' Wrote:I read your part on Outcasts and Corsairs allying temporarily, or even just fighting the nomads on their own. Corsairs actually have their own station in Delta and in the RP situation, the Corsairs provide military support to the Order since the end of the nomad wars. So I haven't got a clue where you got the idea of "you have to join the Order to fight us". Outcasts, I agree, shouldn't be there. The place is swarming with Corsairs, with not a single Outcast NPC in the system or the systems one jump from it. Or even two jumps?. So the "Outcasts allying with Corsairs" situation shouldn't happen in the first place.I don't have problem with Corsairs in Delta at all, you have small outpost here. So I think you have misunderstood me or read something that isn't there. Defend Yaren, it perfectly fits. I was talking about Outcasts allying with Corsairs.
For now, my opinion stands along with that of my fellow Elders that adequate protection for the Zoners and the Order will be stationed on Yaren for response against Keeper forces. There are many aims of this, but one is to secure Delta from the nomads, namely the Keepers. Even bounty hunters can station there, as there are BH Destroyer patrols in that system. Mostly, they are shooting Corsair Osiris patrols....
Regarding the "saviors of humanity". Yes, it's the role of Order primarily, they won the war against Nomads in the first place and it's their rightful title. And that's why I put "fight back" in there for the purpose. Corsairs are allied with Order now, that is much true, but where their primary objectives lie? Has three nomads became a top of the list? This is my point here actually. "Join the Order" was about if you want to go real offensive, it makes sense because that's what Order are. I put it because I think the Order now has something real to do, fight against their direct enemies, so I would like to see more Order players you see.
Personally I'm looking forward seeing combat with Order and Corsairs.
So let's go together along on that. There is much to come and much to do for all of us.
' Wrote:Actually, nomads being a hostile and very dangerous enemy to all humans means that humans do band together to fight them collectively. People don't kill Liberty, because they aren't a threat to the existence of the human race. In fact, there are many films and games that depict humans from all over the world banding together against an unknown and alien threat. Independence day and Wing commander are two off the top of my head. Its not role play abuse, especially when it is used as a selling point in films, in which the actors have a deeper role play element than we could have here. I do not agree with your point of view on that particular subject and have yet to be convinced...My point is that bandwagon doesn't go very well when there are only one-two nomad ships in the area. Hardly a grave threat to humanity. Yet, like I said, people jump out of their pants. Why? The reason is too obvious not to be seen directly. You see that as well.
Plus, in a reference to mentioned above, there was much bickering between allies even. It's only in very cheap action movies you can see everyone banding together without a single problem on the first occasion. But that doesn't happen in anything more serious, and I tend to believe that Discovery is far more than that with conspiracies, betrayal, drama, action, friends turning enemies and vice versa.
That's why I'm saying that alliances should have more thought and story behind them, not just suddenly grouping in, but actual and lengthy roleplay.
Keepers Beta Test 1 - Panzer - 11-20-2007
Well... for BSG, the whole system is a sort of a shrine - the Battlestar's infocard states, thet the original one was found near where Freeport 11 was built. And yes.. I meant the lost battlestar too.It's a shrine, sort of an obelisk left by the Egyptians... Not that it's our base or anything - it's admin and we cannot even dream to lay claim on it, but it's a part of our RP history. Delta is the place, where the colonials first made contact with Sirius (a zoner recon unit to be exact), so the place while not an everyday zone of operations - surely is a place we all consider important.
So don't think we'll all suddenly swarm the place with the entire fleet - the Taus are where we'll typically go. Most likely - expect lone capships, small recon parties and such - mainly to penetrate the new nomad worlds and pay a visit to the lost battlestar (as I do every time I'm in delta)
Keepers Beta Test 1 - Treewyrm - 11-20-2007
' Wrote:So don't think we'll all suddenly swarm the place with the entire fleet - the Taus are where we'll typically go. Most likely - expect lone capships, small recon parties and such - mainly to penetrate the new nomad worlds and pay a visit to the lost battlestar (as I do every time I'm in delta)Fair enough, Templar, fair enough. Just would love see some roleplay behind. Like deep space recon, supplies to FP11, that really fits and I think you agree on that. That would make it perfect and completely in the sense of Discovery, literally.
And don't worry, I read the story of BSG and other factions long ago. :-)
My only concern is roleplay, stories and getting it all working right.