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+--- Thread: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal (/showthread.php?tid=95716)
RE: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal - sindroms - 03-19-2013
Anomander. I do not understand something.
You make a thread, ask for opinions, and people provide theirs.
Then you become aggressive when their replies do not relate to your own views on the subject. You accused me of being negative on the subject, where I was simply giving my opinion, to which you replied, and then gave a reply to your own replies.
That is called having a discussion.
If you cannot accept that others, even a wast majority as seen here, have other opinions about your suggestions, why would you bother making a public thread about the issue at hand?
RE: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal - Curios - 03-19-2013
I just +1 because anyone who knows me at least a little bit knows what will my reply to such thread look like.
Caps must suffer.
RE: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal - Anomander - 03-19-2013
@ sindroms - I'm not agressive - I just reply to others opinions - since We have a discussion.
Just like others I have right to have my own opinion - but the thing is that IMHO that is strange
only zoner crusiers are forbid to dock in house space (rest mentioned ships is understandable to me)
But if You feel stricken - then I'm sorry, it was not my intention. Yet reply:
(03-19-2013, 03:30 PM)Anomander Wrote: I do not know why You look at this in such negative light - it could be an oportunity for more RP(...)was more directed to SummerMcLovin...
But back to the main topic, there were many opinions about balance, threat - but in fact none convinced me.
RE: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal - Leppy - 03-19-2013
(03-19-2013, 08:00 PM)Anomander Wrote: Ad1.
If there were/are any balance reasons then why only dock?
Why do permit to enter to house space?
The main balance issue was that a zoner IFF'd ship with a well made reputation sheet could essentially be neutral to ever faction in the game. Capital ships and transports have enough cargo capacity to do large-scale powertrading abusing that neutrality. Thus there are no server rules (however there are inRP house laws) preventing said ships from entering house space, but they are not allowed to dock and sell/buy goods.
(03-19-2013, 08:00 PM)Anomander Wrote: Ad B.
Applying this logic, there is no RP basic for landing ANY capital ship in house space
- yet only Zoners are the only who were disadvantaged.
I have my reasons, simple travelers who came back from long journeys also might want to dock to planets or regular bases,
not mention about convoy protection who need fuel, exuipment, nanos, bots and food.
Umm as was already pointed out, this is a greatly flawed argument as it makes no sense that house ships would not be able to dock/moore with their own stations and planets. Zoners are loners who do not want to be around house space. There really are very few inRP reasons why zoners would be in house space in the first place. Their RP and essentially the reason for the very existance of the zoner faction is that they wanted to get away from house space. Why would they then go and bring their colony ships back there?
Also, as was pointed out earlier in the thread as well, why are you escorting with cruiser (and above) sized ships? Cruisers are made for large scale combat against other capital ships. I could possibly see a cruiser escorting a convoy, but only in the very far reaches of space where the nearest help is hours, if not days, away (read: Omicrons/Omegas). What possible reason would someone waste the resources that are involved in running such a large ship when their are plenty of house capital ships just a few seconds/minutes call away?
RE: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal - TLI-Inferno - 03-19-2013
The corvo has only 200,000 hull. It's much lighter even than the hatchet (although it is not smaller). However a skilled corvo pilot with cerberus turrets can still effectively kill battleships and cruisers alone. That's why they can't be allowed in house space.
However, a corvo outfitted with pure solaris turrets, without using its heavy slots, is basically a slower gunboat. That sort of loadout can't pose any threat to capital ships, as it would have the firepower of a gunboat while still being larger and slower, without having enough hull to make up for that. I actually tried to request special permission into liberty with a solaris corvo, figured I'd try to have some fun roleplay and interaction with traders, but it couldn't be allowed because the ID prohibits it. Meanwhile, the corvo doesn't really serve much of a purpose in the omicrons where it is allowed.
The Zoner Gunboat, however... Well, sucks. So it wouldn't be very useful. Additionally, the zoner gunboat doesn't have enough cargo to use capital armor and still carry cargo. Granted, the cruiser doesn't have enough cargo to make actual profit, but it has enough cargo to roleplay the act of carrying important materials, even if they are a small amount.
RE: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal - Anomander - 03-19-2013
(03-19-2013, 08:52 PM)Leppy Wrote: The main balance issue was that a zoner IFF'd ship with a well made reputation sheet could essentially be neutral to ever faction in the game. Capital ships and transports have enough cargo capacity to do large-scale powertrading abusing that neutrality. Thus there are no server rules (however there are inRP house laws) preventing said ships from entering house space, but they are not allowed to dock and sell/buy goods.You are talking about powertrade - yet I do not want to delete line about
transports with over 3,600 cargo space only one kind of ships - crusiers.
May I ask what balance issue brings a ship with 600-750 units of cargo?
(where usualy half of that is taken by CAU)
(03-19-2013, 08:52 PM)Leppy Wrote: Umm as was already pointed out, this is a greatly flawed argument as it makes no sense that house ships would not be able to dock/moore with their own stations and planets. Zoners are loners who do not want to be around house space. There really are very few inRP reasons why zoners would be in house space in the first place. Their RP and essentially the reason for the very existance of the zoner faction is that they wanted to get away from house space. Why would they then go and bring their colony ships back there?inRP reasons why crusier could enter House space:
Also, as was pointed out earlier in the thread as well, why are you escorting with cruiser (and above) sized ships? Cruisers are made for large scale combat against other capital ships. I could possibly see a cruiser escorting a convoy, but only in the very far reaches of space where the nearest help is hours, if not days, away (read: Omicrons/Omegas). What possible reason would someone waste the resources that are involved in running such a large ship when their are plenty of house capital ships just a few seconds/minutes call away?
escort trader, exchange some goods/informations also research results
to buy some equipment/goods not available in Zoner stations.
RE: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal - SummerMcLovin - 03-19-2013
(03-19-2013, 04:53 PM)SummerMcLovin Wrote: Could you be more specific in your reasons why? Not sure what a researcher needs such armour/weaponry for.This was a continuation of my previous question:
(03-19-2013, 03:58 PM)SummerMcLovin Wrote: If you find a valid reason for bringing a cruiser instead of just a GB and/or bombers as escorts, submit that to the house for permission.
As it stands, Zoners are not allowed to dock by server rules as an ooRP measure against people powertrading with their neutral Whales, and I assume to discourage escorting/causing trouble with their ZoI-less caps.
They are not allowed in house space because we don't want foreign caps in our house. Being able to dock there is useless if you have no special permission to stay there, and I said there had been no good enough reason. "I have to be stronger because I deal with dangerous Nomad research, so can I bring this to your capital planet?" is not going to get a positive response from any of the houses.
RE: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal - Jinx - 03-19-2013
in terms of the corvo - it might be best to remove it from the zoner faction entirely and put it to a non player faction - like the CRI institute. - and make it possible to be used with a science ID ( do we still have that? )
btw. i was not aware its that small - but i just checked....
its not supposed to be that small.
RE: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal - Pancakes - 03-19-2013
We have police fations already. We don't need Sirius-police with cruisers.
RE: Corvo - exception to the rule in ID - proposal - Anomander - 03-19-2013
(03-19-2013, 09:18 PM)SummerMcLovin Wrote: As it stands, Zoners are not allowed to dock by server rules as an ooRP measure against people powertrading with their neutral Whales, and I assume to discourage escorting/causing trouble with their ZoI-less caps.So You are saying that if there will be option that crusiers are alowed to dock then
They are not allowed in house space because we don't want foreign caps in our house. Being able to dock there is useless if you have no special permission to stay there, and I said there had been no good enough reason. "I have to be stronger because I deal with dangerous Nomad research, so can I bring this to your capital planet?" is not going to get a positive response from any of the houses.
there will be more powertraders? No, since there will be still the line - about ships with
cargo more than 3600...
They are not allowed in house space because of inRP requirement to obtain permits
not by server rules and noone ask about them since they cannot land anyway...
About nomad-research there are few stations in each of house space
where nomads are bought for testing for research purpouses...
(03-19-2013, 09:29 PM)Pancakes Wrote: We have police fations already. We don't need Sirius-police with cruisers.I agree...
Let Corvo stay just like it is - a Zoner ship - to Zoner use only.
and let zoner crusiers dock in planets/bases