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+---- Thread: [Guide] Player Owned Base (/showthread.php?tid=80349)
RE: Discovery Player Base Guide - St.Denis - 11-18-2023
How Good/Bad is the New Siege Mechanics?
As I said here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=200409&pid=2314120#pid2314120
"When known Siegers praise it, it rings slight alarm bells."
Quote:1) Not sure about the new Siege Mechanics.
a) When known Siegers praise it, it rings slight alarm bells.
b) I have no idea how much the ammo costs and how much damage they do.
c) With a 2 hour window, how long does it take to reach the maximum damage?
d) I don't see how 6 x 2 hour, to kill a Core 4, is any better than what we had before, as it just appears that the Attackers just swamp the Base with ships very quickly.
e) A Core 1, unless it has nearly 50% health already, doesn't even survive first encounter.
So I decided to look in to it a bit more.
POB Tutorial Wrote:Even during a vulnerability window, player owned bases only take damage from special, ammo-fed siege weapons mountable to gunboats, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships.
These weapons are available anywhere their non-siege equivalents are sold, with the following names:
Battleship Siege Turret (Class 10 - Battleship Heavy)
Cruiser Siege Cannon (Class 8 - Cruiser Heavy)
Gunboat Siege Cannon (Gunboat Forward Gun)
These weapons are fully capable combat weapons, albeit with an ammo restriction, which are specifically tuned to be the only weapons capable of damaging POBs.
The ammunition is quite expensive, which imposes something of a cost to the sieging party. In return, however, sieges are now typically much faster across the board if uncontested.
For this, I decided to mainly look at the Battleship, as it is generally the Ship of choice for sieges.
Battleship Siege Turret (Class 10 - Battleship Heavy) - Cost = 50,000 credits
Ammo (Gustav) - Cost = 450 per shot.
Maximum Ship can carry = 450
Total cost = 202,500 credits.
Damage per shot = 72,000
ROF = 0.5 (1 shot per 2 seconds)
POB Tutorial Wrote:As a POB takes damage, the internal shield will react accordingly and begin to harden against outside fire.
This will manifest in the shield resistance to damage massively increasing over time, until such a point where no more damage can be done to the base until the next vulnerability window.
Short, combative siege windows which can be performed by a larger variety of ships and factions spread out over a longer campaign are the ultimate objective of this new system.
The 'reinforcement' threshold, or point at which a POB can take no further damage in that window, is noted below:
Core 1: 5,000,000 damage
Core 2: 5,000,000 damage
Core 3: 6,000,000 damage
Core 4: 7,000,000 damage
Core 5: 8,000,000 damage
Dev in the know Wrote:Bases start at 20% shield damage reduction when they first start taking damage during an invulnerability window. Then, every time a certain threshold of damage is reached -- it depends on the core of the base -- the base gains another 20% shield damage reduction. This can increase all the way to 100% (after 4 times the shield reinforcement threshold worth of damage is dealt), rendering the base invulnerable and creating what's effectively a damage cap per vulnerability window.
Now the following information is using certain assumptions, of which I think are not correct, but it is on the side of caution as I do not know much about Battleships and their Powercores.
Assumptions:
1) A BS can have only 1 Siege Cannon (I have a feeling that they can have more than 1).
2) With a fire rate of 0.5, I have said that it can continuously fire it once every 4 seconds (I have a feeling that they can fire it a bit faster than that).
3) That the increase in shield efficiency is at regular intervals ie 25% ,50% , 75% damage of the Base's daily allowance.
For this example a Core 4 Base is used.
Core 4 Base = 24,000,000 hps
Daily Damage = 7,000,000 hps
Daily allowable repairs = 2,995,200 hps
Net Loss = 4,004,800 hps
Vulnerability Window = 2 hours per day.
Days to kill = 6
Day 1 - 19,995,200 left
Day 2 - 15,990,400 left
Day 3 - 11,985,600 left
Day 4 - 7,980,800 left
Day 5 - 3,976,000 left
Day 6 - DEAD
So now to how much damage a single Battleship, using 1 Siege Turret, firing once every 4 seconds using the information above:
For the:
0-25% threshold, the Siege Turret will do 80% of 72,000 = 57,600 damage per shot.
25-50% threshold, the Siege Turret will do 60% of 72,000 = 43,200 damage per shot.
50-75% threshold, the Siege Turret will do 40% of 72,000 = 28,800 damage per shot.
75-100% threshold, the Siege Turret will do 20% of 72,000 = 14,400 damage per shot.
7,000,000 divided in to equal quantities of hps for the 4 thresholds = 1750,000
Shots to reach threshold:
1st - 1,750,000/57,600 = 30.4 shots
1st - 1,750,000/43,200 = 40.5 shots
1st - 1,750,000/28,800 = 60.8 shots
1st - 1,750,000/14,400 = 121.5 shots
Total shots = 253.2
Total time to take 253.2 shots at 1 shot per 4 seconds = 1,012.8 seconds or 16.9 minutes.
Ah! But I didn't take in to account the Base repairing in that time.
POB Tutorial Wrote:Base repair rates and damage rates are:
Wear and Tear Damage every 60 seconds = (200 * Core Level)
Wear and TearBase will take 4x Damage on bases below Crew requirement
Repair every 60 seconds = Number of repair commodities x 240 x Core Level
Core 4 Base has all 3 Repair Materials in abundance, so maximum healing can be achieved.
Healing = 3 x 240 x 4 = 2,880 per minute
So for 16.9 minutes = 48,672
At best this would add another 12 seconds to the time taken by 1 Battleship to achieve maximum damage in the 2 hour window, so taking the time up to 17.08 minutes.
So based on these calculations, it would take 1 Battleship, over a 5 day period, 85.4 minutes to reduce a Core 4 Base down to the point that it would need about 6 minutes to finish off the Base on the 6th day.
Taking about 1353 shots for the price of 608,850 credits worth of ammo.
Cost to the Owner for 5 days worth of Repair Materials is 691,200 credits, just to keep the Net Loss down to 4,004,800 hps per day.
So Defenders will need to be defending for the whole of each 2 hour period to stop the Base dying.
Disclaimer: This is best I can do with the information I have to hand. I am sure a Dev will point out any mistakes I have made. I would hope that Base Sieging isn't this easy.
RE: Discovery Player Base Guide - TheSauron - 11-18-2023
The damage per shot listed in a siege weapon's stats is against other ships. Their anti-PoB damage output, last I asked, goes like this:
![[Image: unknown.png?ex=6557dfea&is=65456aea&hm=0...04be4a2b0&]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/612431394014101504/1167580865652605028/unknown.png?ex=6557dfea&is=65456aea&hm=0d890ea75e1ef2f478af740caad9865abf55e82dd15107388f7405b04be4a2b0&)
As for the damage output of a single siege ship, the two numbers that determine it are the ship's power regen and the weapon's efficiency. Taking the Battleship Siege Turret as an example, it does 10 000 damage for 400 000 power, giving it an efficiency of 0.025. To get the damage-per-second a ship can dish out over a long period of time, you simply multiply the power regen by the weapon's efficiency.
For example, the Legate has 151 000 u/s power regen. Multiplying it by the 0.025 efficiency of a Siege Turret gives us a value of 3 775 DPS. That is the maximum amount of damage a Legate will do to a PoB, regardless if it has one or four siege turrets.
I arrived to a similar conclusion to yours when I also assumed the stat card damage is what the weapons do to a PoB, but their actual damage output is much lower. Because of this, your result of 85 minutes is way off the mark, though far as I know the amount of shooting is still much less than it used to be.
RE: Discovery Player Base Guide - Wildkins - 11-18-2023
Sauron is on the mark. The guns have differing damage so that their PVP balance and sieging balance are separate. Those numbers are still accurate.
The actual time it takes a single heavy battleship to siege down a Core 4 would be 11 vulnerability periods, each taking the full two hours - so 22 hours, not 85 minutes.
There's some changes in the pipe in regards to both defense module efficacy against large groups and the amount of healing vs HP levels of bases, as right now it's definitely slanted a bit too hard toward siegers.
RE: Discovery Player Base Guide - TheKusari - 12-14-2023
Added "Legitimate Warehouse" into the guide. Unsure what the proper recipes are, however the materials needed to construct the module itself is there.
RE: Discovery Player Base Guide - TheKusari - 12-15-2023
Added recipes for the Legitimate Warehouse. Enjoy the Cardamine, NOX and Artifact smuggling
RE: Discovery Player Base Guide - Ashyur - 12-15-2023
no LPI bonus ??
RE: Discovery Player Base Guide - Gabriel Angelos - 12-16-2023
Legitimate Warehouse product sell price should be higher than illegitimate produtcs.. rifgt?
whats the point of spending 1000 consumer goods / 5k product and a factory slot if final Legitimate product price is less than illegitimate produtcs
RE: Discovery Player Base Guide - Lord Caedus - 12-16-2023
(12-16-2023, 08:58 PM)Gabriel Angelos Wrote: Legitimate Warehouse product sell price should be higher than illegitimate produtcs.. rifgt?
whats the point of spending 1000 consumer goods / 5k product and a factory slot if final Legitimate product price is less than illegitimate produtcs
You get reduced input cost with the ID bonus, so in the long run you'll get more of the concealed product out than you put in. Effectively generating more of the commodity which means you have more to sell.
RE: Discovery Player Base Guide - Gabriel Angelos - 12-17-2023
(12-16-2023, 09:07 PM)Max Morse Wrote:No corsair bonus there.. in fact sairs have very little bonus anywhere..(12-16-2023, 08:58 PM)Gabriel Angelos Wrote: Legitimate Warehouse product sell price should be higher than illegitimate produtcs.. rifgt?
whats the point of spending 1000 consumer goods / 5k product and a factory slot if final Legitimate product price is less than illegitimate produtcs
You get reduced input cost with the ID bonus, so in the long run you'll get more of the concealed product out than you put in. Effectively generating more of the commodity which means you have more to sell.
RE: Discovery Player Base Guide - Lord Caedus - 12-17-2023
(12-17-2023, 04:33 AM)Gabriel Angelos Wrote:(12-16-2023, 09:07 PM)Max Morse Wrote:No corsair bonus there.. in fact sairs have very little bonus anywhere..(12-16-2023, 08:58 PM)Gabriel Angelos Wrote: Legitimate Warehouse product sell price should be higher than illegitimate produtcs.. rifgt?
whats the point of spending 1000 consumer goods / 5k product and a factory slot if final Legitimate product price is less than illegitimate produtcs
You get reduced input cost with the ID bonus, so in the long run you'll get more of the concealed product out than you put in. Effectively generating more of the commodity which means you have more to sell.
Corsairs aren't meant to be getting a bonus, just like how Outcasts don't. They aren't meant to smuggle their illicit goods themselves, but are meant to have other people do it for them.