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+--- Thread: Corsair - Zoner (/showthread.php?tid=73664)
Corsair - Zoner - spikefin - 02-08-2012
' Wrote:The first side demanding too much, anywhere in Sirius, would have to face a broad front of "Zoner-friendly" forces.
Bye.
Quote for the sake of it. Very random thought, Theres now plenty of people I believe on both sides, Posting really constructive Discussion, I vote some of them to term it out for zoners. This guy for one.
First, A discussion with these guys, Its going to take 3 weeks (Good thing)
Second, For some reason I think they would try representing all zoners, and the zoner ways, and realisticly, The Corsairs to.
I could very much be wrong.
My memory may be failing in my age, But wasn't Dusty Lens an admin, Im sure he is the guy that hair sanctioned me for accedentily saying lol, or:)in /l, /s back in the day
I think guys like that that simply ran black/white you sanctioned, Were probably half the reason RP was so intense in my memory of days gone.
Corsair - Zoner - Linkus - 02-08-2012
' Wrote:Oh, tempting tempting tempting, but... Political? Naaaah.
That's kind of how it happened actually, but on a much smaller scale, of course. Different ethnic groups being thrusted into countries with artificial borders, left over from previous colonist regimes. Of course the said colonists didn't care all that much which ethnic groups they had under one roof before colonialism collapsed.
After the said collapse though, the artificial borders stayed and the centralisition as well. The result? War. Civil war. Call it what you like. Several groups fighting amongst each other for one centralised seat of power.
Similar to current situation.
It has been 20 years since the Zoner infocards were accurate.
It has been 20 years of growth for nearly all powers around the Zoners.
THe more strain you put on the Zoners, the more they will either unify or divide, that is how human society works, even at a basic family level. You force people to take sides.
It has been 20 years of that pressure, that strain, building up on the Zoners.
They unified initially, then it fell apart.
Without any strong unification movement, the Zoners will, and should, become ever more divided.
20 years is a long time folks.
Families can fall apart in weeks.
Corsair - Zoner - DAnvilFan - 02-08-2012
' Wrote:They unified initially, then it fell apart.
Without any strong unification movement, the Zoners will, and should, become ever more divided.
Right. Here we go again.
The falling out was entirely OORP driven via player angst. I understand that it happened within server history, so it must be accepted, but it certainly hasn't been canonized in Discovery. If you want to give me rebutals, I'd be interested to see infocards.
As for the 20 year arguement, that doesn't hold much water seeing as how the development you're talking about went from zero to a million over night. Zoner Battleships were in Discovery since day number 1 and there has been almost no gradual development of Zoner RP since then. It's been the same for the past 4 years. Unless you count the manufacturing of new ships.
Corsair - Zoner - Trogdor - 02-08-2012
The Zoners functioned best when we had the Council. We would debate, we would vote, there would be resolution. It did not fall apart because of a collapse in ideology. It collapsed because of oorp reasons (people got upset, leaders left, nobody wanted to pick up the torch). I was upset that after all the good the Council had done, suddenly people were just content to let it die and do its own thing. The Zoner official factions pretty much went 'Woop, no more council? Oh well! Time to go do our own thing.' I don't even remember what the Zoner Alliance was or attempted to be, because to do anything other than directly resume the role and form of the Council seemed to me absurd. I left Disco for a year, and when I came back, found the state of Zoner politics to be as muddled, directionless as I expected. On the sea of diplomacy, we are adrift. We are one boat with motors mounted on different sides, each attempting to push us in different directions, and getting us nowhere.
Corsair - Zoner - Linkus - 02-08-2012
' Wrote:Right. Here we go again.
The falling out was entirely OORP driven via player angst. I understand that it happened within server history, so it must be accepted, but it certainly hasn't been canonized in Discovery. If you want to give me rebutals, I'd be interested to see infocards.
As for the 20 year arguement, that doesn't hold much water seeing as how the development you're talking about went from zero to a million over night. Zoner Battleships were in Discovery since day number 1 and there has been almost no gradual development of Zoner RP since then. It's been the same for the past 4 years. Unless you count the manufacturing of new ships.
Pretty much the entirety of that, aside from the OORP issues, were development faults.
The big battleships were given to the Zoners simply to have a place to put them, there wasn't really much thought given to it aside from "These ships won't fit in anywhere but we want them ingame, what do we do?".
If anyone remembers the Talarca, they'll know what I mean. It went from being a lovely kusari civilian craft to being the Zoner Corvo.
There was no roleplay behind the zoners suddenly getting these monolithic beasts, it was an OORP issue.
Similarly, the reason why there are no infocards talking about the council falling apart is the same reason why folks are fighting with each other now, people have different ideas of what Zoners are. The developers at the time did as well.
That and the fact that old infocards were rarely updated in the past. It's only with 4.85/6 that proper effort was given to updating older infocards and 4.86 is the first to do a proper job of it.
Currently, there is no real dev consensus on the Zoners unity or disunity.
A combination of different opinions and a lack of action on the matter basically means nothing was changed.
You cannot rely on what the outdated, or even wrong, infocards say ingame.
Development and oorp issues have pretty much jeopardised that.
Make the Council again, make the Alliance again, do something for gods sake.
I'll throw whatever weight I have behind a well thought out effort.
If it works, fantastic, if it doesn't, try something else.
I don't want to see any players leave because of this sort of mess.
Corsair - Zoner - Agmen of Eladesor - 02-08-2012
' Wrote:EDIT:
Yes the whole paradise thing is a bit of a problem.
Why the hell has no one invaded it already?!
I know, I know. I had such plans for that planet to be the homeworld for our Empire in what used to be all of the Omega systems (to be renamed the Guild Empire systems, once we conquered all of them with our new tech.)
What's worse is that I'm only half joking when I say this - people have been wondering why the Guild and Guild Core have cap ships and invasion fleets and want all the Nomad tech and fight the Order. There has ALWAYS been a reason behind our actions like this... :)
(big maniacal laugh heard...)
Corsair - Zoner - tyro - 02-08-2012
' Wrote:....
Make the Council again, make the Alliance again, do something for gods sake.
I'll throw whatever weight I have behind a well thought out effort.
If it works, fantastic, if it doesn't, try something else.
I don't want to see any players leave because of this sort of mess.
it won't work. council, alliance or something other won't help.
people who loves to bash zoners, will always find a reason.
whatever zoners would do the annual zoners hunt season will come again.
united zoners are much better target for it.
only devs and admins can stop and prevent it.
Corsair - Zoner - Dane Summers - 02-08-2012
' Wrote:whatever zoners would do the annual zoners hunt season will come again.
Then we turn our ship into the waves, instead of being battered by them.
Corsair - Zoner - tyro - 02-08-2012
I prefer to stay in a safe port, far from the storm.
Corsair - Zoner - DAnvilFan - 02-08-2012
Linkus: I wish we had an official Discovery RPG manual. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would eliminate a lot of bickering.
' Wrote:The Zoners functioned best when we had the Council. We would debate, we would vote, there would be resolution. It did not fall apart because of a collapse in ideology. It collapsed because of oorp reasons (people got upset, leaders left, nobody wanted to pick up the torch). I was upset that after all the good the Council had done, suddenly people were just content to let it die and do its own thing. The Zoner official factions pretty much went 'Woop, no more council? Oh well! Time to go do our own thing.' I don't even remember what the Zoner Alliance was or attempted to be, because to do anything other than directly resume the role and form of the Council seemed to me absurd. I left Disco for a year, and when I came back, found the state of Zoner politics to be as muddled, directionless as I expected. On the sea of diplomacy, we are adrift. We are one boat with motors mounted on different sides, each attempting to push us in different directions, and getting us nowhere.
There was a point in time when I believed that the Council was OORP until I properly researched Zoner Lore. You see, a lot of folks complained about a lack of independant policy making. Why should the TAZ and ZTC vote on the same thing if they're on the opposite sides of the map, people told me. Well, as it so happens, none of that makes a bit of difference. If you make policies independent of each other, you are okay. But if you make policies on a global scale, you are STILL okay because if the issue doesn't concern you - it doesn't affect you.
If it DOES affect you, that means that you are moving all over Sirius. But if you are doing that (and most players are) it means that Zoners are globalized and that despite Freeports being scattered, it wouldn't make much difference because what difference does "distance" make if you're bouncing between four different Freeports ten times a day?
Eventually, it all came down to ME not wanting to be associated with YOU. But this is an entirely player driven preference to escape Roleplaying challanges. At the end of the day, there is much more evidence in vanilla lore which suggests Zoner unity than the opposite. Zoner ultra-independence mentality exists because players want independence. Everyone wants the same tag but does not want to share responsibility for the other's mess. Which is a pity because that's half the fun of the game.