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+--- Thread: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? (/showthread.php?tid=132238)
RE: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? - Dove - 08-04-2015
(08-02-2015, 11:37 PM)MÃmir Wrote: The reason why we all hate caps is that any clown can turn up in the middle of an ongoing snub fight, sit still and let autoaim do the work, and totally and utterly waste the effort any snub pilot put into it. Not so long ago, the cap could share his bots and bats with snubs too. To top it off, a lot of cap pilots will then go on a rant about how they are full of skill and how other players should just get good, as if they ever knew what that really means.
The reason the "hate" is one-way is exactly that. One lone fighter can hardly do anything to spoil a cap brawl, whereas the most useless of useless cap pilot can easily wreck the fun the snub pilots were having.
It would be better if it was two seperate worlds. Caps with slow guns unable to ever land a hit on any snub, no matter how effective autoaim is. Then buff cap armor so that snubs can't really bring it down. We can then completely ignore each other. Unfortunately that's not how the balance is, so we rely on gentleman-agreements.
To this, I'd like to point out that a group of 2-3 experienced bot-sharing pilots can utterly ruin the fun of other players too, and even more so, since there is no escape from 3 ace snubs, whereas there is always an escape from a cap.
A large portion of the server (especially new people) simply can never gather 2-3 snub pilots of same skill, and without caps to support them, they would have 0 chances, and be wiped out every single time.
Is that more fun for them?
Add a so-called "gentleman's agreement" of server aces that they will let each other target noobs without getting in each other's way, and there is no point in any new person even trying anything.
And thats the whole problem with discovery: There is really no point to even try anything. Someone is going to come muck it up, because they think it's their lawn and not yours, and that they have to win all the time and have more than you because they think they're somehow "better" for flying smaller ships or pretending they're a fluffy rainbow colored bunny.
Thats EVEN LESS fun for people who dont have the same experience plus two friends with the same experience than your tears about how you couldnt kill that other snub because he got help from a cap.
(08-03-2015, 10:46 PM)Fluffyball Wrote: Limit battlecruisers, battleships and carriers. This way, indies can still fly destroyers/cruisers - but also can be easily killed by an organized bombing party.
You want bigger guns? Prove us you deserve them then.
Problem solved.
Nope. Nothing solved, and many more problems created.
They only way that you will get killed by a cap in a snub is because you chose to stay close to it. Flying a cap doesnt help you kill other ships. It just helps you stay alive longer, and help other stay alive.
There should be perks for abiding to basic RP standards, but they shouldn't be applied exclusively to caps, and they shouldnt be applied exclusively to "officials". They should be aplied to all ship classes, concerning armor, weapons, and cargo size. Most importantly, they should be achievable by anyone who tries, through strictly objective criteria, without the need to please selected individuals who think that pretending they're a pacifist human-squirrel hybrid makes them a philanthropic intellectual who deserves advantages over others.
RE: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? - Riess - 08-04-2015
You can actually take my point as one for getting blues, but that's short-sight when speaking of battleships. What I actually mean is that lone battleships lurking away from safe space make great attractors for groups to organize against. And putting perfect-case scenario aside, such group can take its sweet time cutting such ship down, in return making itself visible and "inviting" for other groups to log and come after. I've seen that happen frequently over those 7 years I am playing Disco, in fact I remember whole microcosmos coming to exist around certain players raiding certain systems on regular basis, with organised support and opposition effords eventually growing into factions adding whole in-RP metagame around that, even if centerpiece's part was limited to appearing in right spot on right time and delivering enough to dodge the sanction for inssuficient pre-engage RP.
As for your post scriptum, I can only say that "I want the Lexus. And you're trying to sell me a Lada."
With battleship I can be farming npc without having one eye on my b/b count all the time. Or I can be grinding anti-cap missions off my homebase waiting for somebody to tag along. And while you'll argue such activity is not adding to RP, I'll argue that such simple interactions make great starting point for RP.
Finally, what would you preffer more? Being jumped by big fat ship you can easily spot from distance and run away from as it tries hopelessly to land a single hit on your small ship, or being jumped by medium sized ship that can actually land and take you down with two hits while you are wondering how many CD's he has left as you are trying to get into cruise? I actually saw such point raised few months after change hit certain faction on DUSA, which jumped to cruisers and gunbos ganks the moment battleship access was removed from them. Speak about irony.
RE: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? - luka.ace - 08-04-2015
time from an Indie point of view.
Personally, I get destroyed by everything. Just started playing disco and lack the experience of piloting everything from a snub to a cap.
my cap is built to attack cap ships. I rely on fighter support when I fly my destroyer around and I don't really see why anything should be balanced in any way. since it works okay now. it may be flawed, but it's okay.
If you limit cap ships to SRP and therefore take the indies out of the equation, you will lose indie players fast, simply because they will see no reason to stick around after getting blown to bits by a cap ship, while they're mining their helium or doing their trading runs, since they won't get the chance to get their revenge. If I didn't join a faction I would be all over the rogues with all the liberty navys armaments have to offer. having a blast and still playing the game. you would prevent me from getting a cap ship to kill the pesky rogues, I would either stop playing disco, or just start playing in gallia where nothing ever happens.
RE: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? - Fluffyball - 08-04-2015
You miss the point mate. The goal is to attract more players to be inside official factions, giving mutual advantages - official faction retaining the official status and players having access to the guns AFTER being taught what is acceptable level of roleplay.
As for now, there is no reason to be part of offical faction, since they can lolwhut around after doing some silent powertrading.
I do not believe a player with Battleship who can barely speak English deserves it in the first place.
RE: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? - Wesker - 08-04-2015
(08-04-2015, 01:58 PM)Fluffyball Wrote: You miss the point mate. The goal is to attract more players to be inside official factions, giving mutual advantages - official faction retaining the official status and players having access to the guns AFTER being taught what is acceptable level of roleplay.
As for now, there is no reason to be part of offical faction, since they can lolwhut around after doing some silent powertrading.
I do not believe a player with Battleship who can barely speak English deserves it in the first place.
Ignore this reply
RE: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? - jammi - 08-04-2015
Limiting capital ships is a short sighted solution to pretty much any problem it's suggested for and results in a net deterioration in both activity and enjoyment for the majority. In particular, the idea that they should be restricted in order to make official factions more appetising is cringe-inducingly bad. Official factions should stand up on their own merits, and if they're not able to draw in recruits, frankly that's their own fault.
Official factions aren't carved-in-stone permanent edifices that must be protected at all costs. They're not too big to fail. If they die through their own (in)actions, they should be allowed to slip away into the ether, and something else should replace them without everyone else being screwed over mechanically by the resultant handwringing.
I'd also be extremely leery of anyone who's basing their proposals on a crusade to "stop the lolwats", seeing as usually that's more a sign of an insufferable holier than thou elitist complex from the proposer. Personal standards are highly subjective, and just because one's own sensibilities are offended, it doesn't mean someone else's gameplay is objectively bad or needs curtailing.
P.S. to the probable Karlotta alt several posts above*: bot feeding has been disabled for quite some time, precisely in order to level the playing field somewhat. Aces can now be ground down over time, as opposed to before where the easiest way to kill them was time and carpel tunnel. You're running a little behind the curve.
*meaning Dove, seeing as Snake is apparently extremely dense.
RE: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? - SnakeLancerHaven - 08-04-2015
The problem is, if this would've been done back in 4.85 maybe or from the very beginning, understandable. But now? No way, every player are used to indie Caps and honestly it's good, gives indies more space and freedom when they want to just fly alone in this dangerous space of Freelancer discovery.
This is not about limiting capusage, it's about Cap vs Fighters.
EDIT: Saw that he meant Dove 8|
RE: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? - Wesker - 08-04-2015
(08-04-2015, 02:11 PM)Snake Wrote: The problem is, if this would've been done back in 4.85 maybe or from the very beginning, understandable. But now? No way, every player are used to indie Caps and honestly it's good, gives indies more space and freedom when they want to just fly alone in this dangerous space of Freelancer discovery.
This is not about limiting capusage, it's about Cap vs Fighters.
P.S. lol Albert Wesker being Karlotta, now that's new. (rofl)
What are you saying.
He said that caps should be limited to officials and I told him why that's a bad idea.
People do literaly have to obey official players for months before they get a cap.
RE: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? - Fluffyball - 08-04-2015
(08-04-2015, 02:07 PM)Wesker Wrote: So your saying me and titan, two of the best bs captians on the server doesn't deserve a battleship?
Mate, did you even read what did I wrote...? I was refering to the guys who fly BS and can't create a phrase in English. My mistake that I still forget to add up the SRP option.
Wesker Wrote:I do role play for mine but if you make it a necessary factor than lots of indies will leave. They will have to kiss the **** of official players for months to fly a cap.
If indies refuse to roleplay, they have no right to be onto roleplay server in the first place. The battleship should be something to be earned not only with money, but also through tons of roleplay, because, guess what, it is...
*le gasp* (Oh my god, I bet you didn't know that!)
...a roleplay server.
RE: Cap fighters vs Snub figthers, "balanced" fights? why so much qq? - Wesker - 08-04-2015
(08-04-2015, 02:22 PM)Fluffyball Wrote:(08-04-2015, 02:07 PM)Wesker Wrote: So your saying me and titan, two of the best bs captians on the server doesn't deserve a battleship?
Mate, did you even read what did I wrote...? I was refering to the guys who fly BS and can't create a phrase in English. My mistake that I still forget to add up the SRP option.
Wesker Wrote:I do role play for mine but if you make it a necessary factor than lots of indies will leave. They will have to kiss the **** of official players for months to fly a cap.
If indies refuse to roleplay, they have no right to be in here. Battleship should be something to be earned not only by money, but also through tons of roleplay, because, guess what, it is
*le gasp*
a roleplay server.
I did read the first part of it hence I said that.
Ok highten standards and watch player count die.
Yea it's a RP server but do you really expect everyone to catch on in 2 days?