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+--- Thread: 4.81 Main Features (/showthread.php?tid=1498)
4.81 Main Features - Igiss - 08-30-2006
seanstakes, MrSns: I know you'll say that I don't like you again, but after this I have a strong tempation to ban you from all forums except Flood altogether. Whenever you post, one can be sure that the post is completely offtopic, without any signs of grammar and with lots of spelling errors. Me, tired of this. Others are probably too. If you can't post well, just don't post when your post has nothing to do with the discussion!
Thank you.
Someone else feels good about adding more black fighters into the game or making capship weapons with 10 km range and 60000 damage? Maybe 100 km? or 6 million damage? Um, why not if we love everything uber.
I'd like to clarify several things. First of all, torpedo weapons are not removed because I want to remove them. It's a requirement for making new ships balanced. No ships are immune to energy shots, right?
As for capship weapons in general, I realize that gunboat weapons should become faster. However, their range will not be increased. Instead, battleship and cruiser turrets may be slower (some of them at least), but with higher range.
As for Razor and Inferno being too slow, that's an issue too - I'll probably make them faster. And increase range, but I'm not planning to make weapons with range more than 2,5k. Forget it.
Higher energy requirements: I attempted to make ships more versatile. Well, I guess I failed. Everyone still want to find a better turret and insert it into all available slots. I'll probably reduce energy requirements for stock turrets, but all others will remain the same. If you don't like it, use stock.
4.81 Main Features - Badger - 08-30-2006
It's the tracking ability of the current anti-capship weaponry that makes them so useful, my Gunboat has become my pride and joy simply due to the versatility of the light mortar weapon on-board. I honestly haven't had a problem with light mortars, I was under the impression that their blast radius is much smaller than that of Novas, possibly minimizing this multiplied damage effect you're talking about but-
I'm not sure I understand this problem right, could you go into detail about the differences current anti-capship weapons have on the original deformable and the new one-piece-hull custom models?
4.81 Main Features - Behemoth - 08-30-2006
Igiss,Aug 30 2006, 12:20 PM Wrote:No ships are immune to energy shots, right?I think it is just me but I still dont get it... :crazy:
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Igiss,Aug 30 2006, 12:20 PM Wrote:... battleship and cruiser turrets may be slower (some of them at least), but with higher range.I agree with this.
(...) I'm not planning to make weapons with range more than 2,5k.
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Imho, that range gives a lot of space already for a fighter skirmish in between battleships.
Igiss,Aug 30 2006, 12:20 PM Wrote:... I attempted to make ships more versatile. Well, I guess I failed.Wrong.
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The only things that need to be tunned a bit are some battleship weapon power drain or BS class power supplies.
For example, Flaks eat insane ammounts of power, even higher than BS missile turrets while having slower refire and speed.
My guess is that BS missiles should be used against Battleships and Flaks for fighters right?
(Still need to confirm the numbers. Feel free to correct me on this!, please.)
As for the removal of Novas and alikes, I have another oppinion about the Bombers.
We could have some bomber equipment that could do a lot of damage to Battleship shields.
That way we could be as realistic as we can see on Single player movie when the bombers take down the Battleship...
Battleship hull should not be touched for two reasons.
1- Avoid increasing the time fighting to take down a Battleship
2- With the hull wide open, it would be just unrealistic to survive too long.
We could have stronger shields though...
That's all for now.
4.81 Main Features - DarkOddity - 08-30-2006
Badger,Aug 30 2006, 06:43 AM Wrote:It's the tracking ability of the current anti-capship weaponry that makes them so useful, my Gunboat has become my pride and joy simply due to the versatility of the light mortar weapon on-board. I honestly haven't had a problem with light mortars, I was under the impression that their blast radius is much smaller than that of Novas, possibly minimizing this multiplied damage effect you're talking about but-
I'm not sure I understand this problem right, could you go into detail about the differences current anti-capship weapons have on the original deformable and the new one-piece-hull custom models?
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I can do my best to try and explain this from what I've seen in ship files.
Each one of the *Original* Freelancer cap ships has an initial hull value.
For example an Osiris has 400k Hull.
Then Freelancer breaks the ships down in to sections, each section has its own hull points, once you deplete the hull points of that section, it breaks off and creates wreckage (<Original FL Fighters) but the original cap ships, instead of a large chunk breaking off the ship and creating wreckage, the ship explodes because it just lost a major portion of it's hull.
Each original FL ship is broken down into sections, I'll use the liberty dreadnaught for example and pull some of the coding from the file...
Code:
[Ship]
ids_name = 237032
ids_info = 66566
nickname = li_dreadnought
LODranges = 0, 600, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000, 5000, 20000
msg_id_prefix = gcs_refer_shiparch_Libb
mission_property = can_use_large_moors
type = CAPITAL
DA_archetype = ships\liberty\li_dreadnought\li_dreadnought.cmp
material_library = ships\liberty\li_capships.mat
material_library = fx\envmapbasic.mat
envmap_material = envmapbasic
mass = 100000.000000
linear_drag = 1.000000
hold_size = 10730.179688
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 0.500000, 1
fuse = li_dreadnought_burning_fuse03, 0.000000, 17325
hit_pts = 280000
explosion_arch = explosion_rh_battleship
surface_hit_effects = 0, small_hull_hit_light01, small_hull_hit_light02, small_hull_hit_light03
surface_hit_effects = 150, small_hull_hit_medium01, small_hull_hit_medium02, small_hull_hit_medium03
surface_hit_effects = 300, small_hull_hit_heavy01, small_hull_hit_heavy02, small_hull_hit_heavy03
steering_torque = 1501900032.000000, 1501900032.000000, 1501900032.000000
angular_drag = 13200000000.000000, 13200000000.000000, 13200000000.000000
rotation_inertia = 15000000512.000000, 15000000512.000000, 15000000512.000000
nudge_force = 3000000.000000
bay_door_anim = Sc_open baydoor
bay_doors_open_snd = hanger_doors_opening
bay_doors_close_snd = hanger_doors_closing
HP_bay_surface = HpBayDoor01
HP_bay_external = HpBayDoor02
HP_tractor_source = HpTractor_Source
num_exhaust_nozzles = 1
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Leaf01_d1_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece
mass = 10.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Leaf02_d1_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 300.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece
mass = 10.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 180000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Leaf03_d1_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece
mass = 10.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Leaf04_d1_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece
mass = 10.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Leaf05_d1_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 600.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece
mass = 10.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 180000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Leaf06_d1_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece
mass = 10.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Leaf07_d1_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece
mass = 10.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 180000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Leaf08_d1_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 500.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece
mass = 10.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Li_bottom_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = debris_vanish
mass = 200.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 0.500000, 1
dmg_obj = li_dread_bottom_cap
dmg_hp = DpBottom
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Li_cntrltwr_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = debris_vanish
mass = 200.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 0.500000, 1
dmg_obj = li_dread_tower_cap
dmg_hp = DpCntrltwr
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Li_rear_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = debris_vanish
mass = 200.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 0.750000, 1
fuse = li_dreadnought_burning_fuse04, 0.000000, 17325
dmg_obj = li_dread_rearsection_cap
dmg_hp = DpRearsection
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Li_nose_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 2000.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece2
mass = 50.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 0.000000, 1
fuse = li_dreadnought_burning_fuse01, 0.000000, 17325
group_dmg_hp = DpFrnt
group_dmg_obj = li_dread_front_cap
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Li_frnt_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = debris_vanish
mass = 200.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 0.250000, 1
fuse = li_dreadnought_burning_fuse02, 0.000000, 17325
dmg_obj = li_dread_midsection_cap
dmg_hp = DpMidsection
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Li_port_skid_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = debris_vanish
mass = 200.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_port_skid_fuse, 0.000000, 1
dmg_obj = li_dread_port_skid_cap
dmg_hp = DpPortskid
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Li_starboard_skid_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = debris_vanish
mass = 200.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_star_skid_fuse, 0.000000, 1
dmg_obj = li_dread_starboard_skid_cap
dmg_hp = DpStarboardskid
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Li_reactor_core_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 500.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece2
mass = 20.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Li_reactor_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = debris_vanish
mass = 200.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Li_engine_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 10.000000
debris_type = debris_vanish
mass = 200.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
dmg_obj = li_dread_engine_cap
dmg_hp = DpEngine
hit_pts = 280000
root_health_proxy = true
[Simple]
nickname = li_dread_bottom_cap
DA_archetype = Ships\liberty\li_dreadnought\li_dreadnought_dmg_bottom.3db
material_library = ships\liberty\li_capships.mat
mass = 10.000000
hit_pts = 500
LODranges = 0, 20000
[Simple]
nickname = li_dread_tower_cap
DA_archetype = Ships\liberty\li_dreadnought\li_dreadnought_dmg_cntrltwr.3db
material_library = ships\liberty\li_capships.mat
mass = 10.000000
hit_pts = 500
LODranges = 0, 20000
[Simple]
nickname = li_dread_engine_cap
DA_archetype = Ships\liberty\li_dreadnought\li_dreadnought_dmg_engine.3db
material_library = ships\liberty\li_capships.mat
mass = 10.000000
hit_pts = 500
LODranges = 0, 20000
[Simple]
nickname = li_dread_front_cap
DA_archetype = Ships\liberty\li_dreadnought\li_dreadnought_dmg_front.3db
material_library = ships\liberty\li_capships.mat
mass = 10.000000
hit_pts = 500
LODranges = 0, 20000
[Simple]
nickname = li_dread_midsection_cap
DA_archetype = Ships\liberty\li_dreadnought\li_dreadnought_dmg_midsection.3db
material_library = ships\liberty\li_capships.mat
mass = 10.000000
hit_pts = 200
LODranges = 0, 20000
[Simple]
nickname = li_dread_port_skid_cap
DA_archetype = Ships\liberty\li_dreadnought\li_dreadnought_dmg_port_skid.3db
material_library = ships\liberty\li_capships.mat
mass = 10.000000
hit_pts = 500
LODranges = 0, 20000
[Simple]
nickname = li_dread_rearsection_cap
DA_archetype = Ships\liberty\li_dreadnought\li_dreadnought_dmg_rearsection.3db
material_library = ships\liberty\li_capships.mat
mass = 10.000000
hit_pts = 500
LODranges = 0, 20000
[Simple]
nickname = li_dread_starboard_skid_cap
DA_archetype = Ships\liberty\li_dreadnought\li_dreadnought_dmg_starboard_skid.3db
material_library = ships\liberty\li_capships.mat
mass = 10.000000
hit_pts = 500
LODranges = 0, 20000Ok, that is code directly for the Liberty Dreadnaught in the Discovery mod.
Each one of the [CollisionGroup] sections is one of the destructable sections on the dreadnaught. Notice the bold code below:
[CollisionGroup]
obj = Leaf02_d1_lod1
separable = true
parent_impulse = 60.000000
child_impulse = 300.000000
debris_type = cap_ship_piece
mass = 10.000000
fuse = l_dreadnought_fuse, 1.000000, 1
hit_pts = 180000
root_health_proxy = true
Hit points, each part has their own set defined for them, which makes up the bulk of the capital ships hull strength, meaning on a large scale, that liberty dreadnaught can take less damage than a ship with no "puzzle" piece parts due to the fact that you *can* target and focus on just one piece of the ship, once that part is destroyed, they are destroyed.
I hope that helps your understanding.
As for why the torpedo items are being remove is, from my understanding, that with the original ships they damage a *large* amount of the pieces, that *multiplying* the damage of the torpedo. So for example.
Nova = 45k Damage (That right?)
Nova hits new non-puzzle ship, 45k damage done
Nova hits 'puzzle ship' blast radius damages 3 areas... nova does 45,000*3=135,000 which makes them much more effective against the "original" cap ships. Doing energy based weapons in their place helps to fix this problem as it would make it so you fire and you only effect one portion of the puzzle, which keeps it from multiplying the damage.
@Igiss, correct me if I'm wrong please, just saying it how I'm understanding it.
4.81 Main Features - Behemoth - 08-30-2006
I apreciate your explanation.
Thank you very much.
4.81 Main Features - DarkOddity - 08-30-2006
No problem, that post took me quite awhile to put together I can see why it wasn't explained in further detail already... Granted I am right in what I'm understanding.
4.81 Main Features - Badger - 08-30-2006
If this is right, then surely the problem can be mostly solved by drastically reducing the blast radius of Nova / anti-capship weapons? Unless they by default home-in on a weaker point on the original ships, I can't see that anti-capship weapons (without the big blast radii) would react any differently to conventional beam or missile weapons. If we're understanding this issue correctly, I'm sure this is a much more favourable alternative to completely removing them.
And thanks for the post DO, very informative... even if a little long ;0)
4.81 Main Features - DarkOddity - 08-30-2006
I think that *would* work... but only theoreticly.. if I'm not mistaken, when the nova hits the target it also causes the damage to other parts because it passes through the ship after it explodes, when it does this, the explosion that is traveling is still doing damage, meaning that any part it hits *After* the initial part will also receive the damage, regardless of blast radius.
Now if there was a way to change the explosion life to like 0.001 so it didn't have a chance to touch other parts... maybe but I still don't know if that would work.... Once again this is all speculation on my part untill Igiss verifies my information.
4.81 Main Features - Korrd - 08-30-2006
Well.. Anti-BS Torpedoes have extended damage radii because of the Immunity problem.
Some sections of a ship are immune to explosions. So, to circumvent that, a bigger explosion radii was given to the nova.
Now, I've seen while experimenting with torpedoes recently that the explosion of a torpedo doesn't travel inside the ship. Most torpedoes seem to explode before hitting the hull of the ship. That might explain why the original blast radii didn't work against big ships. Because it exploded before hitting the ship's physical hull.
Regarding the damage multiplier problem, energy weapons don't do damage to multiple sections of a ship. They just damage the section impacted so they always do the damage at 1x.
Now, what's the main disadvantage of energy weapons against missiles? Accuracy. They are not fire and forget weapons. They follow a straight line between the target and the attacker. They are easier to dodge.
To diminish that problem, we need to make them fast enough to be difficult to avoid. They have to reach max_range in no more than one second. Range = 1000, then speed = 1000~1050.
4.81 Main Features - Behemoth - 08-30-2006
Whatever Igiss might come up with, I must admit it would be nice to have some kind of "bomb" to go along Bombers.
:unsure: