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+--- Thread: The Order of the Lion (/showthread.php?tid=20598)
The Order of the Lion - Darkflight - 05-18-2009
In answer to parts of your post, mr benitez, i shall qoute myself, from page 2, in reply to a post about us being just the BAF
' Wrote:we are not the same as them. Our mission is to crusade towards the corsairs, whilst the BAF's is to defend bretonia's borders. while their efforts are towards defence of bretonia, ours are to the defence of our order, the citizens of bretonia, and to hold back the corsairs
our job is not to wipe you out immediately. our job is to contain you, and slowly and strategically lay seige to your bases and force you back. in answer to your comment about us attacking you as a player faction. we will not attack you as players unless it is an event co-ordinated by both sides. most of what we will do is generate supplies, and defend against, and set an offensive against, the NPC corsairs and those who attack us. this is because, if a crusade has no money to back it, it will ultimately fail. other comments you may have in there I cannot aswer, and you must leave them to be answered by zig
The Order of the Lion - Hawkwings - 05-18-2009
I think a difficulty is arising in the problem of scale. This faction is meant, in-RP, to be relatively small, judging from the information you all have given. The Corsairs are the biggest criminal organization in Sirius. They are the size of a House. There's no way that, in-RP, you'd be more than another little speck they have to deal with. Now, granted, the Corsairs have to fight bounty hunters, Hessians, and Wilde too, so this Order of the Lion would survive by virtue of being a small target. But if you "lay siege" to their bases, well, that makes you a far bigger target, liable to get smacked by a battleship squadron.
The Order of the Lion - Zig - 05-18-2009
' Wrote:I think a difficulty is arising in the problem of scale. This faction is meant, in-RP, to be relatively small, judging from the information you all have given. The Corsairs are the biggest criminal organization in Sirius. They are the size of a House. There's no way that, in-RP, you'd be more than another little speck they have to deal with. Now, granted, the Corsairs have to fight bounty hunters, Hessians, and Wilde too, so this Order of the Lion would survive by virtue of being a small target. But if you "lay siege" to their bases, well, that makes you a far bigger target, liable to get smacked by a battleship squadron.
The Corsairs are not the size of a House. They're a large criminal organization, yes, and they own a string of bases throughout the Border and Edge Worlds. No more, no less - they don't pose even remotely as much of a threat as an actual Sirian House like Liberty or Rheinland would.
The Corsairs do indeed have many opponents. You're perfectly right when you point out that this'll divide Corsair responses. However, even if the Corsairs were capable of mounting an organized response against the Order in the form of a "battleship squadron" against us (whether in terms of abstract roleplay or in terms of actual player base), two factors would enable us to defend: firstly, that every base we've chosen to maintain a presence on is surrounded by a handy asteroid field that'll leave heavy warships dead in the water, and secondly, the average Corsair is, frankly, a poor fighter. Almost without exclusion, when I fight serverside against a Corsair force, it greatly outnumbers me or me and the others with me - we tend to win regardless. We intend to have every Crusader of the Lion maintain a bomber and to be a capable bomber pilot. Superior equipment and numbers can only take one so far - a skilled opposing force will rout even a "battleship squadron" like the one you suggested, whether ingame or in matters of general roleplay.
(I tend to view the Corsair Empire as being something like the Imperial Guard, but with much less discipline and coordination.)
Basically, I honestly think that the Order as it'll (hopefully!) be implemented ingame will have an excellent chance at defeating the Corsair zergs that'll doubtlessly be thrown at us. 'Course, clever use of our surroundings (i.e. asteroid fields) will help, as well.
The Order of the Lion - globalplayer-svk - 05-18-2009
Zig two things.
you missed reaction to part of carlos benitez post about this:
And, consider that the majority of players with Corsair characters have already stated that they do not want to have to deal with a clan that's only motivation is to PVP with them. Do you really have the right to force it on them?
and your words about this:
Pretty much this. Eventually, it'd be great to be allowed to construct our own base, perhaps in Omicron Theta.
i hope they are not serious... bretonia base in theta? i dont think that bretonians know where theta is ....
ok and more serious:
pushing corsairs back to gamma. Ok, bretonians have no idea about 49 so only way is o3,o5,o41 and then gamma. how you will roleplay small force that can fly unharmed to gamma around hessian and corsair base in omega 5, around another corsair base in 41 and then make panic in gamma?
and using freeports? i am sure that zoners will not tolerate it. As i know freeports are stated as neutral bases, that will be not used as base for attacks against enemy. And especially freeports in omega 41 and theta.Hunters dont use them for attacks on corsairs and outcasts, and corsairs and outcasts dont use them for attacks against hutners and each other.
So in the end you have few old ships that will fly trough lot of enemy bases to face one of the strongest unlawfull faction in sirius, and in the meantime you have mollies pirating in bretonia and kusari naval forces killing bretonians.
i am sure that bretonia goverment can find better place for using hot headed civilians ...
and to the corsairs not have size of a house, all know that corsairs are biggest unlawfull group in sirius, and when you count bases and systems where they are, you have really big number. So again, group of angry civilians trying to destroy their homeworld is not good idea...
The Order of the Lion - pipboy - 05-18-2009
' Wrote:The Corsairs are not the size of a House. They're a large criminal organization, yes, and they own a string of bases throughout the Border and Edge Worlds. No more, no less - they don't pose even remotely as much of a threat as an actual Sirian House like Liberty or Rheinland would.
Yes they are they are as dangerous as a house. Don't forget the vanilla "Road to Rheinland" plan. Now here in Disco we played it out in game and the Corsairs lost. But the in game news and rumors placed the Corsairs as just as powerful as Rheinland with a very realistic chance of conquering the entire house.
I'm sorry but the Corsairs, if they chose to do so, could smash you like a mosquito. If they found out where you are operating from they would destroy your base in Omega 3 or wherever it is (I forgot). And with Bretonia so occupied with Kusari they would not be able to spare much of anything to help you.
This whole operation is something that could spell doom for Bretonia. The Corsairs are not fighting a war the size of the one that Bretonia is fighting right now, and therefore can spare entire fleets to handle you if needed. The last thing that the Bretonian government would want right now is for your group to piss off the Corsairs, the equivalent of stirring up a nest of hornets, and having the Corsairs focus a couple battle fleets on Bretonia to remove this new threat.
Right now Bretonia can NOT handle a fight on two fronts, and if the Corsairs invaded on a large scale because your Order pissed them off, that would be the end of Bretonia. Their limited forces would be split on two fronts and they would fall apart. Kusari would conquer most of Bretonia and the Corsairs may or may not keep some of the southern systems.
The Order of the Lion - Zig - 05-18-2009
' Wrote:Zig two things.
you missed reaction to part of carlos benitez post about this:
And, consider that the majority of players with Corsair characters have already stated that they do not want to have to deal with a clan that's only motivation is to PVP with them. Do you really have the right to force it on them?
and your words about this:
Pretty much this. Eventually, it'd be great to be allowed to construct our own base, perhaps in Omicron Theta.
i hope they are not serious... bretonia base in theta? i dont think that bretonians know where theta is ....
I... don't quite see the connection between the two comments you posted. They're dealing with completely different matters.
Of course Bretonians know where Omicron Theta is, and naturally I'm serious. Think I wrote that lengthy faction document as a joke? What's wrong with Bretonian crusaders setting up more permanent camp in the Edge Worlds? We don't come under the auspices of the Bretonian government in practice, as established with LeMaitre, and there are probably plenty of Bretonian citizens populating the various Freeports in the area.
The Order of the Lion - Zelot - 05-18-2009
' Wrote:I... don't quite see the connection between the two comments you posted. They're dealing with completely different matters.
Of course Bretonians know where Omicron Theta is, and naturally I'm serious. Think I wrote that lengthy faction document as a joke? What's wrong with Bretonian crusaders setting up more permanent camp in the Edge Worlds? We don't come under the auspices of the Bretonian government in practice, as established with LeMaitre, and there are probably plenty of Bretonian citizens populating the various Freeports in the area.
So let me run this down,
1) non-governemnt group
2) Based of Freeports
3) Attacks Corsairs
Sounds like Bounty Hunters to me.
The Order of the Lion - Darkflight - 05-18-2009
pipboy - bretonia will not be fighting on two fronts. a paramilitarian force that has seperated itself from the BAF and the citizens of bretonia will be fighting the corsairs. we are still allied to them, but (hopefully) act seperately. We will also be generating our own supplies, and will not be stupid and attack when we cannot afford to. you should also read above posts, as some of your comments have been answered to before
The Order of the Lion - Chico - 05-18-2009
I am confused. It appears that whilst you have suggested that you are going to strategically lay siege to the corsair bases, your actual ZOI consists of all corsair areas except Gamma, all right now, instantly. I'd say you've achieved your first aims and moved onto your last one already. You can move freely right up to the jumpholes into Omicron Gamma. All this from a bunch of freelancers where the might of the Hessians, Rheinland and Bretonia have failed, you have already succeeded in laying siege to Gamma.
Another thing. Whilst you claim to be answerable to the Bretonian military (and lets face it, you'd have to be, operating throughout Bretonia, just like the BH who are bigger than you), another ZOI is Dublin. Do the Mollys know?
Would they be happy with Bretonians, ultimately responsible to the existing law makers in New London traipsing through their systems, right past their bases?
Hessians.....Why would they let a small well armed highly trained group of paramilitary Bretonians move through their space?
I would suggest that they'd be a little suspicous if not outright hostile. The Bretonian Armed Forces are their enemies afterall.
Is there any country in the world who would allow that presently, whilst hostile to the proposer?
Have there ever been any?
One final note, in Omega 49, I am reading elsewhere that Gran Canaria is currently unknown to Bretonia but you appear to be aware of it and are preparing to map it. Corsairs are there at the behest of the Zoners, as well as an apparant large corsair population on GC itself.
I would expect Zoners in Gran Canaria to be just as hostile, should you attack their would-be defenders.
Might make the Freeports in 41 and Theta difficult for you.....
I see the same names cropping up when a suggestion to attack and PvP corsairs comes up. Whilst I'm sure thats not the intention, it does look like it. If it was, I'd expect the Mollys and Hessians to allow it afterall.
Sadly, I can't shake the feeling theres some agenda going on. I'd vote against it. Theres more than enough factions down here as it is and many have very similar ZOI's and aims.
The Order of the Lion - Zig - 05-18-2009
' Wrote:Yes they are they are as dangerous as a house. Don't forget the vanilla "Road to Rheinland" plan. Now here in Disco we played it out in game and the Corsairs lost. But the in game news and rumors placed the Corsairs as just as powerful as Rheinland with a very realistic chance of conquering the entire house.
I'm sorry but the Corsairs, if they chose to do so, could smash you like a mosquito. If they found out where you are operating from they would destroy your base in Omega 3 or wherever it is (I forgot). And with Bretonia so occupied with Kusari they would not be able to spare much of anything to help you.
This whole operation is something that could spell doom for Bretonia. The Corsairs are not fighting a war the size of the one that Bretonia is fighting right now, and therefore can spare entire fleets to handle you if needed. The last thing that the Bretonian government would want right now is for your group to piss off the Corsairs, the equivalent of stirring up a nest of hornets, and having the Corsairs focus a couple battle fleets on Bretonia to remove this new threat.
Right now Bretonia can NOT handle a fight on two fronts, and if the Corsairs invaded on a large scale because your Order pissed them off, that would be the end of Bretonia. Their limited forces would be split on two fronts and they would fall apart. Kusari would conquer most of Bretonia and the Corsairs may or may not keep some of the southern systems.
That would be an excellent argument and doubtlessly very true if the Corsairs were capable of summoning up the coordination and organizatorial skill of a banana. Fortunately for the Order, they can't, so we feel validated in assuming that we can, in fact, take the Corsair Empire on, the Knights of the Lion being superior in terms of planning and competence in fights.
The Corsair Empire is a little like the European Union, really - very powerful in theory, but rather ineffective in reality due to the tendency of its members to scheme and politicize against each other and to get hung up on minor details. The Corsairs might, theoretically, be a very powerful force. However, in actuality, the Corsair "Empire" consists of a great deal of absolutely bloody incompetent unaffiliated pilots whose sole purpose in life seems to be valiantly defending Planet Crete's docking ring and of several more organized factions whose half-hearted attempts to guide the unwashed Corsair masses along the road to intelligence and sanity seem sadly ineffectual, and who are themselves beginning to drop in quality (this is only my perception of matters and isn't intended as a flame attempt). The Corsairs the Order of the Lion will be dealing with in practice can't muster a force to "squash us like a mosquito". Hell, I doubt they could even squash a real mosquito - they'd probably need to settle on a chain of command as well as move away from Crete to manage that.