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Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - Printable Version

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Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - Elsdragon - 08-06-2009

Quote:Personally I'd take a Flashpoint over a Salamenca any day. But regardless of how strong you make them, until you make them stronger than Salamencas, people are going to keep the same mind set.

true, But we might see more good RPers Actually using FLashpoints, or Un made civillian weapons

Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - tansytansey - 08-06-2009

' Wrote:true, But we might see more good RPers Actually using FLashpoints, or Un made civillian weapons
No reason why they can't now... I use them on my Merc. Since Flashpoints are currently about the same DPS as a class 8 gun, we should probably buff up Heavy and Adv Flashpoints (cause LFs need love too D:) to maybe just below the level of Vengances in terms of DPS.

Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - Benjamin - 08-06-2009

' Wrote:There could be a myriad of RP reasons as to why the Liberty Rogues have a better Laser Weapon than all these massively rich corporations. Like, I don't know... they're Buisness men not cutthroat pirates? Or Maybe Laser is just an obsolete technology and no one else bothers developing enhancements anymore (It seems that way at least xD)
I'm sure you could, but you could do that for anything for anyone. Corporations have a much better basis for having better gear.
Quote:Of those 16 Factions, how many of them are trader factions? I'm betting it's the majority, if not all of them. So what use does a trader faction have for a top of the line military grade weapon? For sale, maybe. But then, it doesn't have to be top of the line since they have no one to compete with. They might need them for escorts too, I suppose. But even then, they don't need to be really good to get the job done. Fact is not everyone can have space superiority at the same time, and the sooner you accept that the sooner you learn to live with what your faction has.
This is a shame, coming from you. You're 2nd in command of LR or whatever, right? You try to avoid fighting the lawfuls because that isn't your RP. So your sammaels are used excelusively against traders. So flashpoints are for exactly the same fights as sammaels are. And they're much, much worse. This isn't coinflip balance, 'one gun has to be better' balance. Flashpoints have been intentionally made much worse than all the other guns. It's kind of a slap in the face for corporate roleplay if you think they have no use for weaponry, especially since, as I said, you are in the leadership of the faction that is most famous for attacking traders to the exclusion of everything else. What, you don't think they should shoot back?
I live with what my faction gets. I don't posess any eyebrow raising loadouts on any of my ships. But flashpoints are a joke. I'll keep using them, but that doesn't mean they stop being essentially discriminated against for totally oorp reasons.

Quote:And contrary to your beliefs, I think that making Flashpoints stronger will do the opposite of what you want here. Those factions already using their IDs appropriate equipment could change to using civilian tech, because it is pretty much legal for everyone to use. Not changing them effects 19 IDs. Changing them effects all of them.
Name a faction that would. If flashpoints got boosted 200dps, the only faction I could see switching over is junkers, and only because the barrager is unbelievably bad. And even then, that would be small scale. Most are using codes, some use PGs already anyway, and a few would soldier on with barragers. Like I said, the bounty hunter laser has been around since forever, and it isn't used when it is an option, because people tend not to like lasers. Find me a single person not in a civilian faction or a junker who would switch to flashes if they went up 200 dps.

Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - tansytansey - 08-06-2009

' Wrote:This is a shame, coming from you. You're 2nd in command of LR or whatever, right? You try to avoid fighting the lawfuls because that isn't your RP. So your sammaels are used excelusively against traders. So flashpoints are for exactly the same fights as sammaels are. And they're much, much worse. This isn't coinflip balance, 'one gun has to be better' balance. Flashpoints have been intentionally made much worse than all the other guns. It's kind of a slap in the face for corporate roleplay if you think they have no use for weaponry, especially since, as I said, you are in the leadership of the faction that is most famous for attacking traders to the exclusion of everything else. What, you don't think they should shoot back?
Guess it's easy to live with what your faction has when it's much better than everything it comes up against.
Unrelated matter. My position in the Liberty Rogues has nothing to do with my views on this matter, and the fact that you'd assume that of me speaks more about yourself than it does about me. Because, the fact of the matter is, I face Transport Turrets more than any other kind of gun. Corporations aren't ones to make much use of escorts, let alone their guns... I don't remember the last time I ever pirated a transport which had protection. Even if they did, I'm more likely to blow up the transport then make a run from it than stick around and fight escorts. Your point there is irrelevant.

Quote:Name a faction that would. If flashpoints got boosted 200dps, the only faction I could see switching over is junkers, and only because the barrager is unbelievably bad. And even then, that would be small scale. Most are using codes, some use PGs already anyway, and a few would soldier on with barragers. Like I said, the bounty hunter laser has been around since forever, and it isn't used when it is an option, because people tend not to like lasers. Find me a single person not in a civilian faction or a junker who would switch to flashes if they went up 200 dps.
Like I said, I don't have a problem with them being buffed. I just don't think they should be stronger than any other faction weapons. Who would you nominate to have the weaker gun than Flashpoints, and how long will it be until they post here complaining and demanding a buff to their weapons?

I've edited my weapon spreadsheet to accomodate a +200dps to Heavy Flashpoints, that's roughly +24 hull and +12 shield damage. It looks pretty reasonable to me and I got no complaints about that. I'll leave the spreadsheet like this for a little while for people to take a look at. I haven't examined it closely yet .(I've been awake for 24 hours now)
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Al...Fadnc&hl=en
(It will probably take 5 minutes to display the changes).

Edit: +200 DPS makes Flashpoints better than Gaian, Bundie, GMG (vanilla's best laser) guns and and the Wyrm.

Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - Benjamin - 08-06-2009

I think there's weird stuff with gun balance on the whole. I mean look at all the 3.03 refire guns. There's a weird blend of roleplay and out-of-roleplay decisions affecting gun balance that makes it very inconsistent.
But like I said, I don't mind flashpoints being bad. Even with 200dps added on, they're still basically the worst guns goint, they're just not MUCH worse than everything else, just a bit. I think the only thing this nudges them over is Lugers, but they're better in other ways, plus Bundschuh can snag any RRA guns without raising eyebrows. Plus Lugers could do with a buff anyway:P. With 1900 dps, flashpoints are in the same league as everything else.

Edit: Okay gaians and GMG too. (I think your wyrm stats are off? I thought they were just destroyers that used less energy) but as I said, at that stage, the difference is minor. make them 1 less dps than the gaian one or something, 200 was just a number i pulled out of nothing.

Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - Elsdragon - 08-06-2009

I dont really want a massive buff, More types would be more important IMNSHO, THey might be better than some, But i dont want them the absolute BEST weapon, Just at faction gun level, or a useable level

Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - tansytansey - 08-06-2009

' Wrote:Edit: Okay gaians and GMG too. (I think your wyrm stats are off? I thought they were just destroyers that used less energy) but as I said, at that stage, the difference is minor. make them 1 less dps than the gaian one or something, 200 was just a number i pulled out of nothing.
My mistake. I had Wyrms at 625 Hull damage, but they're 652. I haven't checked my spreadsheet for bugs, so it's probably not the only typo xD
I think 200 is a relatively decent number anyway. It practically puts them at 1900 DPS, and I'd set that as the mininum bench mark for all class 9 guns personally. Gaian, Bundie and GMG weapons probably need a buff as well.

Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - Elsdragon - 08-06-2009

So.......COmment on having diffrent civy gun types?

Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - tansytansey - 08-06-2009

' Wrote:So.......COmment on having diffrent civy gun types?
Meh. Only if it's Liberty Civilian, Kusari Civilian, Bretonian Civilian and Rhienland Civilian. Not neccisarily restricted to those areas, but developed by corporations in each respective house.

Should we get Diffrent types of civillian guns? - sean24 - 08-06-2009

I said yes, but I only agree because I just think we need more good generic guns. Photon would be nice too. But it doesn't make much sense that a civilian would be using heavy grade weponary. Its like instead of having a household rifle buying a minigun.