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+--- Thread: Long range BS AA guns aka Another bomber vs cap rant topic (/showthread.php?tid=41007)
Long range BS AA guns aka Another bomber vs cap rant topic - Kazinsal - 06-03-2010
' Wrote:If you want to pwn caps (which isnt really true anymore, since battleships are now useless against competent Destoyer pilots) then you'd mount primaries, cerbs and Mortars.I hit fighters with primaries and cerbs, Cam. It's not hard. I suck in battleships. You don't need Solarises. You just need aim/higher brain function.
Also: battleships should not wtfpwn everything. Case closed.
If anything, buff cruisers so they can anti-fighter better.
Long range BS AA guns aka Another bomber vs cap rant topic - ... kur nubėgo? - 06-03-2010
' Wrote:ANd battleships are designed to have no way to touch cruisers?
Yes ! It's tactical siege weapon. Most likely the hardest flown cap of all imo. In these things skill, common sense, battle expereince (from which common sense of what to do comes) count a huge part. Not only equipment and ship stats. Same reason why Cam is whining about cruisse. He no longer can brake the cruisser range advatage.
You have bombers for those which truster speed is 200 not 140.
If bs can touch cruisse most likely it would fallow with cruissers death soon after it.
Long range BS AA guns aka Another bomber vs cap rant topic - CzeReptile - 06-03-2010
' Wrote:I hit fighters with primaries and cerbs, Cam. It's not hard. I suck in battleships. You don't need Solarises. You just need aim/higher brain function.
Also: battleships should not wtfpwn everything. Case closed.
If anything, buff cruisers so they can anti-fighter better.
Dumb ones you meet. Anybody who can averagely fly can strafe at one place from those shots. Probably I meet just those who can fly.
And to add on other post.
Cruisers might have the range advantage, but remain in touch for battleships. Being fired upon with prims from 4k would give you year to evade the shots. Easy. But nooo!
Long range BS AA guns aka Another bomber vs cap rant topic - ... kur nubėgo? - 06-04-2010
' Wrote:Dumb ones you meet. Anybody who can averagely fly can strafe at one place from those shots. Probably I meet just those who can fly.
And to add on other post.
Cruisers might have the range advantage, but remain in touch for battleships. Being fired upon with prims from 4k would give you year to evade the shots. Easy. But nooo!
Just becouse you don't hit a thing, doesn't means that you do not effect the general situation of it.
Keeping attention on strafing reduces aim + cruisser have one more thing to worry about, which means his attention is less orantied to the surraundings, and it's more likely for him to make tactical errors. If someone is smart enought to take exploit of it, it might end grim to the cruisser
Long range BS AA guns aka Another bomber vs cap rant topic - CzeReptile - 06-04-2010
That is true, but if the pilot is competent, he can aim at you from safe distance, do either anchor or thrust turn and you are done for again.
Long range BS AA guns aka Another bomber vs cap rant topic - Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever - 06-04-2010
Quote:I hit fighters with primaries and cerbs, Cam. It's not hard. I suck in battleships. You don't need Solarises. You just need aim/higher brain function.
I hit BHG Gunships with Snacs.
I suck in bombers. You don't need thrusters.
Its not hard.
See, I can devalue things you say, too!
Quote: you can't have everything. And never will. Or if you do, it won't be efficient enought. FInd a niche, make use of it.
You cant have everything, I can though.;)
Quote:Yes ! It's tactical siege weapon. Most likely the hardest flown cap of all imo
With no way for battleships to kill it effectively, It makes the battleship one more ship its useless against.
+1 failurescovery.
But its to be expected.
Quote:Cruisers might have the range advantage, but remain in touch for battleships. Being fired upon with prims from 4k would give you year to evade the shots. Easy. But nooo!
Are you daft? You've obviously never flown a battleship. They're primaries are 3.2/3.5k range. Too low for cruisers, which leaves Mortars, 4.5k and slow as hell. easily avoidable.
Quote:battleships should not wtfpwn everything. Case closed.
Sure they should. They just cant in the current state of things.
Quote:That's how it should work. Don't try to fix what is not broken.
Then what is the Battleships purpose?
Dont throw me that RP bullspit either, You know thats not an effective reason to fly a ship, just look at the Prison Liner or the Heavy Lifter.
Quote:Use brains? Like seprating two solaris groups. One on the tail of the ship, other on front. Like 4x 4x or 5x 5x
That would only throw off your crosshair. A good example of that would be trying to shoot NPC fighters coming straight toward you, while you go straight toward them in an Adv Train shooting. Try it, you cant hit them.
Long range BS AA guns aka Another bomber vs cap rant topic - CzeReptile - 06-04-2010
Cam I was reffering to IF there were primaries with 4k range. Not that there are such. I am much aware of the range stuff.
Long range BS AA guns aka Another bomber vs cap rant topic - Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever - 06-04-2010
Oh!
Yeah, that would definately even it out more. Far more....
Long range BS AA guns aka Another bomber vs cap rant topic - Colonel Z.e.r.o. - 06-06-2010
' Wrote:Meow.
I am owner of 4 battleships for a weird reason. Now while this has been discussed so many time that I lost count, here we go again.
Flak turrets obviously work on short distance. Primaries against bombers, well do they suck. Yes. Rest has no range to oppose sniping bomber.
now we all love using relevant RL examples here, so let me use one too for some fun. WW II battleship would never die to 2 bombers (unless you drop 1000kg bomb into munition), and would most likely have sufficient firepower to scare them away without taking damage. Now in Discovery, 2 bombers, worth some 40 million each, can ditch any capital ship, ranging prizes from some 50 million to almost 2 billion. Also, sniping in bomber require imo little to no skill, ganking BS with 3 bombers is guaranteed death unless you are really dumb to fly close, while 3 BS never kill single bomber if they gank him. And besides of quickly dying in combat, capital ships have no real purpose imo. And I own six such. Mindless grind for money only to be blown away by 2 small flies.
Now I got idea if it is possible - make a gun to compensate the total inability of battleship to oppose bombers. some 2-2.5k ranged gun that - when fired, makes a distance calculation to target and shell explodes on the said distance, similar to flak, but just aimable. Low energy too so they can create a wall of explosion to prevent bombers from reaching distance without being in danger. You can still take on the BS from the sides. About that is it.
I just hate to see precious battleships die to puny bombers. Do not give me bullz bout escorts. Most people dont have faction to fly with them everytime they want to pull their cap out. Dont give me dont buy cap bullz. Some people just want, like you do your bombers. Respect that. However the balance issue is not there imo. Caps have been nerfed to point where they are only big targets. Bigger cap makes bigger target. Get a billion worth ship. Meet 2 bombers. Or even 3 VHF. Die. Fail. try again. LOSE FUN.
howg
blame me!
I would like to note that since we're unable to support a server that can have 30+ players flying in bombers at once to hit a group of battleships without lagging out the individual player has been given more power to accommodate for the lack of wing men. Much like how I can get to one side of the Sirius sector in the tiniest of ship in about an hour. Basically the game mechanics (of any game) have been made to scale down reality so we can accomplish much without camping in the borderworld for months at a time like our RP counterparts do.
In the same way we have to devise a way to allow a battle a realistic closing despite the lack of players. Not every BS/cruiser has 4 or 5 fighters to call on when it encounters bombers (game wise and in real life). So allow it reasonable means to keep it's assailants at bay, reasonable AA defense that aren't godly, but aren't completely useless.
Yes we know one can with skills rip off the shield of even a very decent bomber pilot, but can he even touch the hull? remember the hitbox for the shield and the actual ship are quite different since the shield is an egg while the hull is subject to the ship's actual shape and size.
Ultimately what I'm suggesting is to reinvent the mechanics accommodate for the many 1V1 situations. Yes we understand larger ships should have escorts, but how many of them can actually call on them in reasonable time? Yes one slightly faster ship with greater range (proposed cruiser) can pummel another (BS) at range. But how long can it facing an enemy at it's broadside or even 45 degree angle maintain that distance (since it's enemy is gonna be racing at full speed to mount an attack) if the max speed it can travel at that position is 10-15? Not suggesting we should allow reverse speed to be 139 but it's one of those thing we should consider compensating for.